My Paradigm speaker cones don't move anymore. The tweeters seem to still work. Some days ago while bassing I smelt a slight electronic-burn smell when doing 16hz and 8hz and 4hz.
They were hooked up to an old sharp reciever with a tape deck.
What do I do? Why did they break? Did the voice coils burn out or the crossover stuff? In one nothing works anymore, in the other just the tweeter? Is it hard to fix?
They were hooked up to an old sharp reciever with a tape deck.
What do I do? Why did they break? Did the voice coils burn out or the crossover stuff? In one nothing works anymore, in the other just the tweeter? Is it hard to fix?
Has this happened to you before? Is it common for the speaker internals to fail due to low bass?
The speakers are 8ohm. Max 110watt per speaker
The sharp says it's a 100watt amp.
50 watts per side?
I don't remeber the ohms for the amp.
The infinities seemed to do fine with the low bass, at 4hz it was like a helicopter rotor feel/sound.
The speakers are 8ohm. Max 110watt per speaker
The sharp says it's a 100watt amp.
50 watts per side?
I don't remeber the ohms for the amp.
The infinities seemed to do fine with the low bass, at 4hz it was like a helicopter rotor feel/sound.
Take out the driver(s) and touch the +/- leads to a 9 volt battery. This should put the driver in or out all the way depending on polarity. If nothing moves, make sure you have a good battery. If you battery is good, your voice coils are fried.
p
They don't move. Why did my voice coils break?
Is there any inexpensive 6(?) inch drivers I can replace these POS paradigm garbages with? They are 6 inch diameter cones, and if you include that rubber that rips easily then 7inch, and if you also include the gaskets on the edge I guess 7.5 or 8 inch.
The hole in the box is like 7 inch.
The cone itself is 6inches.
Are there any inexpensives that can give me the big booty bass that I lookin for?
Is there any inexpensive 6(?) inch drivers I can replace these POS paradigm garbages with? They are 6 inch diameter cones, and if you include that rubber that rips easily then 7inch, and if you also include the gaskets on the edge I guess 7.5 or 8 inch.
The hole in the box is like 7 inch.
The cone itself is 6inches.
Are there any inexpensives that can give me the big booty bass that I lookin for?
dude... 16hz and 8hz and 4hz? really?
how were you feeding them this sort of signal, and at how many volts?
a tone CD or signal generator or ???
what were the paradigms rated to do at these frequencies?
you generally fry most 18" subwoofers also if you do this with any sort of power....
is my first thought.....
how were you feeding them this sort of signal, and at how many volts?
a tone CD or signal generator or ???
what were the paradigms rated to do at these frequencies?
you generally fry most 18" subwoofers also if you do this with any sort of power....
is my first thought.....
Lightly press on the cones and listen and feel if there is any scratching or crunching sounds--if there are, it is burned voice coils.
A 6 inch woofer is not designed to do 16, 8 or 4 Hz. There are woofers out there that will do 16 or 8Hz but not 4Hz...even if they are 18 inches in size. True, you can use a sealed subwoofer and as long as you don't exceed Xmax, it will move back and forth but generally subs are not designed with that in mind.
There is a rotary fan subwoofer that will do 4Hz but at $16K, might be a bit expensive.
Check the specifications on speakers before running any test tones through them. They will be listed as (for instance) 50Hz to 20KHz or 30Hz to 19KHz etc. Generally speaking, the only reason to run test tones is when testing speakers for frequency response during setup. They are generally run at low volume to prevent damage to the speakers and the time used is measured in seconds. It follows one of those rules, if you don't know what it's for...leave it alone until you do.
On the good side of things you blew up something that is not too expensive to replace--blowing up a pair of 15's would get pricey.
The woofers are specific for the crossover and if you replace them with something different, the crossover would require different components to allow it to operate correctly.
It would be impossible to specify a replacement woofer since we don't know what Paradigm you are using. Since the speaker is a 2-way, there are no woofers that would put out enough highs to mesh with the tweeter and give strong bass response.
I'd replace the woofers with stock Paradigm woofers to retain the crossover settings, look into actual subwoofers and leave test tones alone.
A 6 inch woofer is not designed to do 16, 8 or 4 Hz. There are woofers out there that will do 16 or 8Hz but not 4Hz...even if they are 18 inches in size. True, you can use a sealed subwoofer and as long as you don't exceed Xmax, it will move back and forth but generally subs are not designed with that in mind.
There is a rotary fan subwoofer that will do 4Hz but at $16K, might be a bit expensive.
Check the specifications on speakers before running any test tones through them. They will be listed as (for instance) 50Hz to 20KHz or 30Hz to 19KHz etc. Generally speaking, the only reason to run test tones is when testing speakers for frequency response during setup. They are generally run at low volume to prevent damage to the speakers and the time used is measured in seconds. It follows one of those rules, if you don't know what it's for...leave it alone until you do.
On the good side of things you blew up something that is not too expensive to replace--blowing up a pair of 15's would get pricey.
The woofers are specific for the crossover and if you replace them with something different, the crossover would require different components to allow it to operate correctly. It would be impossible to specify a replacement woofer since we don't know what Paradigm you are using. Since the speaker is a 2-way, there are no woofers that would put out enough highs to mesh with the tweeter and give strong bass response.
I'd replace the woofers with stock Paradigm woofers to retain the crossover settings, look into actual subwoofers and leave test tones alone.
I like to play organ (via zymaddsubfx on linux) and if the test tones will kill it so will the keyboard.
Also sometimes I play my yamaha ez-ag midiguitar.
My setup is:
Computer -> 1/4th splitters
-> Reciever -> 2 Infinity's 2Ubls and a 12 inch downfiring subwoofer
+Some sharp amp with the 2 paradigms.
+Varous smaller satellite(lots of tweeters)+"subwoofer" setups too
Not being able to go low would make this equipment worthless.
Having a wrong crossover wouldn't bother me, since the soundscape is allready complex.
I just need cheap, inexpensive drivers to fix these with.
Also sometimes I play my yamaha ez-ag midiguitar.
My setup is:
Computer -> 1/4th splitters
-> Reciever -> 2 Infinity's 2Ubls and a 12 inch downfiring subwoofer
+Some sharp amp with the 2 paradigms.
+Varous smaller satellite(lots of tweeters)+"subwoofer" setups too
Not being able to go low would make this equipment worthless.
Having a wrong crossover wouldn't bother me, since the soundscape is allready complex.
I just need cheap, inexpensive drivers to fix these with.
Just a few questions
What is the model number of the Paradigms
Remove the blown woofers and measure the cut out diameter so we will have an idea what size a replacement needs to be. I looked at some Paradigm Studio 20's with a 7 inch woofer--but they make many speakers so the model number would help.
Since you're screwing around with organs, make sure the subwoofers are the only ones that handle the bass--don't run your other speakers full range.
The largest two pipe organs in the world have 8 Hz pipes--all others have 16Hz at the deepest so keep that in mind. Have no idea why you'd run a 4 Hz test tone unless your curious or like to watch cones move.
If you want to see what it takes for pipe organ reproduction down to around 10 Hz--here is the system from Bass Pig that was specifically designed to handle life like pipe organ levels.
www.Basspig.com The Bass Pig's Lair
What is the model number of the Paradigms
Remove the blown woofers and measure the cut out diameter so we will have an idea what size a replacement needs to be. I looked at some Paradigm Studio 20's with a 7 inch woofer--but they make many speakers so the model number would help.
Since you're screwing around with organs, make sure the subwoofers are the only ones that handle the bass--don't run your other speakers full range.
The largest two pipe organs in the world have 8 Hz pipes--all others have 16Hz at the deepest so keep that in mind. Have no idea why you'd run a 4 Hz test tone unless your curious or like to watch cones move.
If you want to see what it takes for pipe organ reproduction down to around 10 Hz--here is the system from Bass Pig that was specifically designed to handle life like pipe organ levels.
www.Basspig.com The Bass Pig's Lair
Is there a way I could filter out sub 20hzs (or sub30hz maybe better) from my mains via putting something on the speaker cables going from the amp?
Can't do it the way I want via software (I want the sub to do 100hz and lower, overlap from 100hz to 20hz or 30hz, softwhere only lets me cutoff without overlap)
The biggest organs can do 4hz by engaging a stop on the 8hz pipe. That's why I was testing it.
Made a helicopter feel/sound.
Killed the paradigms I guess. On the back of the speaker it says model 5se.
Can't do it the way I want via software (I want the sub to do 100hz and lower, overlap from 100hz to 20hz or 30hz, softwhere only lets me cutoff without overlap)
The biggest organs can do 4hz by engaging a stop on the 8hz pipe. That's why I was testing it.
Made a helicopter feel/sound.
Killed the paradigms I guess. On the back of the speaker it says model 5se.
If you could hear the speaker making the 4Hz tone, you were likely overdriving it.
I killed a 260w (claimed) speaker with an amp that was later measured to give ~150w into 8ohm (amplifier did not clip). I used a 20Hz test tone and because this was so far out of the speaker's designated range (6" pro midbass - down to ~80Hz), it blew in seconds.
While it might well be possible to get 4Hz out of some of the really big organs, I ask you this: are there any pieces of music that require it?
One of the reasons many stop at 32Hz is the structural damage you'll cause to the building around the organ if you go lower, so I suspect the answer to the above question is "No".
Chris
I killed a 260w (claimed) speaker with an amp that was later measured to give ~150w into 8ohm (amplifier did not clip). I used a 20Hz test tone and because this was so far out of the speaker's designated range (6" pro midbass - down to ~80Hz), it blew in seconds.
While it might well be possible to get 4Hz out of some of the really big organs, I ask you this: are there any pieces of music that require it?
One of the reasons many stop at 32Hz is the structural damage you'll cause to the building around the organ if you go lower, so I suspect the answer to the above question is "No".
Chris
If you could hear what sounds like a helicopter while doing this, then you may have mechanically damaged the voice coils by repeatedly slapping them against the bottom of the gap. Once some mechanical damage takes place, the deformed coil may scrape and/or develop internal shorts which reduce the resistance of the coil rapidly, which can then lead to a final blow of thermal failure.
The only way to realistically be playing sub-20hz is going to be with enormous displacement drivers and sealed enclosures to provide loading that low. The noise you are hearing from your current setup at 4hz is not 4hz, but rather, 8 noises per second.
The only way to realistically be playing sub-20hz is going to be with enormous displacement drivers and sealed enclosures to provide loading that low. The noise you are hearing from your current setup at 4hz is not 4hz, but rather, 8 noises per second.
Chris brings up a good point,
You can't "hear" a 4 Hz tone, it is detected by the pressure against your body and transferred through your bones via bone conduction to the inner ear.
The same way with music, you can build tweeters to go to 100,000 Hz but even if using something that would play that, you'll never hear it. There is no music that goes that high so no need to have a speaker capable of such things.
Throwing a 4Hz tone into an 8 inch woofer won't give you output at that frequency that you could feel, but it will give you massive distortion that you can hear.
Found your speakers, they are 87dB at one watt, the 8" (210mm) woofer sits in a 1.1 cubic foot (32 liter) box, it's ported and crosses over to the tweeter at 2.2 KHz. Frequency response is rated down to 32Hz.
Back in the early 90's, in the weird world of car audio--we used to overlap subwoofers and speaker mains all the time usually to fill in the natural rise due to cabin gain of the sub and prevent localization of the sub. Normally we would cross the mains at around 45Hz and the subs at 70Hz and tweak the filters to smooth. Audiophiles don't pay attention to car audio (or PA systems) and think this is a "new idea"
If you want to overlap your mains with the subs, there is a specific way you do it without blowing everything up. Normally it is done with multiple amplifiers, electronic adjustable crossovers and multiple subwoofers. PA systems sometimes are setup that way as long as the main speakers can handle it.
The Paradigms are rated to 32Hz so I'd set the filter at around 35Hz for extra protection. Since you are in the habit of running test tones, it is generally a good idea to cut the signal near tuning frequency.
You have several options if you want to overlap your mains with your subs, a mini-DSP ($125) has crossover functions, filters and EQ to keep you occupied for awhile.
Then their is "bass blockers" as they call them in car audio. Basically, you take a capacitor and put it inline with the speaker cables to filter out bass frequencies. They are not steep filters in that they only drop 6dB per octave but I used them all the time in car audio since most folks keep messing with the crossover and blowing things up. My preferred filter frequency was 70Hz on the mains so it was at least 10dB down by 20Hz just in case they bypassed the filter to the main speakers. They cost a couple of bucks each but protected all those 6.5" door speakers from being blown by stupid moves from the owner.
A variant of "bass blockers" are called F-Mods, they are filters that plug into RCA cable ends that feed your amplifiers. Not a steep filter at 6dB/Octave but work OK for basic protection and save on driving power out of the amplifier that the speaker can't use.
The easiest way to do this is by simply doing it right. Research what speakers you have and how low they go. Pick the lowest frequency your pile of speakers will reproduce (say 45Hz or so) and set the subwoofer to 50Hz. All the speakers will do 50Hz and up while being protected from signals they can't do and the sub won't be wasting power producing signals that the mains can do. Find out the lowest frequency the subwoofer is rated for and set the filter to that frequency. Anything below that (unless it is a sealed subwoofer) will basically be distortion, wasted power and will blow the subwoofer driver.
Say the sub goes down to 25Hz, if you want lower--add an "infrasonic" woofer and cross it at 25Hz to it--be prepared to have a huge box, huge woofers and a big amp up front.
If you demand to have big booty bass from the ported Paradigms, get an 8" woofer with the longest Xmax (stroke) that is at least 87dB of sensitivity and is rated to 2.2 KHz and preferably, seal off the port and hope the woofer running sealed is rated at 1.1 cubic feet of air space. It won't be as loud as the ported Paradigm woofer at 32Hz but the sealed box will help prevent distortion when running low notes.
That is the basic reason most car subs are sealed in boxes that are too small, the cabin gain gives them the low bass and the high pressure sealed box helps prevent blowing the cones out.
If you want to experiment with the low notes on pipe organs, I'd suggest listening to them in a car with a rather large array of sealed subwoofers. The massive cabin gain down low is about the only thing "free" in audio when it comes to deep bass. Just remember the bending and flexing of the body panels and windows in the car represents what happens to a building when attempting high output low frequencies.
It will be hard to find a car audio system that will produce your 8 and 4Hz tones, most of them run filters to cut anything below 10 to 15 Hz to protect
their system. The trick is to find an idiot that will allow you to turn off the protection filters and subject his system (and car) to 4Hz. Do a little research on youtube concerning car audio subwoofers to help identify the right kind of idiot--they do exist!
Subwoofer 4Hz!! - YouTube
You can't "hear" a 4 Hz tone, it is detected by the pressure against your body and transferred through your bones via bone conduction to the inner ear.
The same way with music, you can build tweeters to go to 100,000 Hz but even if using something that would play that, you'll never hear it. There is no music that goes that high so no need to have a speaker capable of such things.
Throwing a 4Hz tone into an 8 inch woofer won't give you output at that frequency that you could feel, but it will give you massive distortion that you can hear.
Found your speakers, they are 87dB at one watt, the 8" (210mm) woofer sits in a 1.1 cubic foot (32 liter) box, it's ported and crosses over to the tweeter at 2.2 KHz. Frequency response is rated down to 32Hz.
Back in the early 90's, in the weird world of car audio--we used to overlap subwoofers and speaker mains all the time usually to fill in the natural rise due to cabin gain of the sub and prevent localization of the sub. Normally we would cross the mains at around 45Hz and the subs at 70Hz and tweak the filters to smooth. Audiophiles don't pay attention to car audio (or PA systems) and think this is a "new idea"
If you want to overlap your mains with the subs, there is a specific way you do it without blowing everything up. Normally it is done with multiple amplifiers, electronic adjustable crossovers and multiple subwoofers. PA systems sometimes are setup that way as long as the main speakers can handle it.
The Paradigms are rated to 32Hz so I'd set the filter at around 35Hz for extra protection. Since you are in the habit of running test tones, it is generally a good idea to cut the signal near tuning frequency.
You have several options if you want to overlap your mains with your subs, a mini-DSP ($125) has crossover functions, filters and EQ to keep you occupied for awhile.
Then their is "bass blockers" as they call them in car audio. Basically, you take a capacitor and put it inline with the speaker cables to filter out bass frequencies. They are not steep filters in that they only drop 6dB per octave but I used them all the time in car audio since most folks keep messing with the crossover and blowing things up. My preferred filter frequency was 70Hz on the mains so it was at least 10dB down by 20Hz just in case they bypassed the filter to the main speakers. They cost a couple of bucks each but protected all those 6.5" door speakers from being blown by stupid moves from the owner.
A variant of "bass blockers" are called F-Mods, they are filters that plug into RCA cable ends that feed your amplifiers. Not a steep filter at 6dB/Octave but work OK for basic protection and save on driving power out of the amplifier that the speaker can't use.
The easiest way to do this is by simply doing it right. Research what speakers you have and how low they go. Pick the lowest frequency your pile of speakers will reproduce (say 45Hz or so) and set the subwoofer to 50Hz. All the speakers will do 50Hz and up while being protected from signals they can't do and the sub won't be wasting power producing signals that the mains can do. Find out the lowest frequency the subwoofer is rated for and set the filter to that frequency. Anything below that (unless it is a sealed subwoofer) will basically be distortion, wasted power and will blow the subwoofer driver.
Say the sub goes down to 25Hz, if you want lower--add an "infrasonic" woofer and cross it at 25Hz to it--be prepared to have a huge box, huge woofers and a big amp up front.
If you demand to have big booty bass from the ported Paradigms, get an 8" woofer with the longest Xmax (stroke) that is at least 87dB of sensitivity and is rated to 2.2 KHz and preferably, seal off the port and hope the woofer running sealed is rated at 1.1 cubic feet of air space. It won't be as loud as the ported Paradigm woofer at 32Hz but the sealed box will help prevent distortion when running low notes.
That is the basic reason most car subs are sealed in boxes that are too small, the cabin gain gives them the low bass and the high pressure sealed box helps prevent blowing the cones out.
If you want to experiment with the low notes on pipe organs, I'd suggest listening to them in a car with a rather large array of sealed subwoofers. The massive cabin gain down low is about the only thing "free" in audio when it comes to deep bass. Just remember the bending and flexing of the body panels and windows in the car represents what happens to a building when attempting high output low frequencies.
It will be hard to find a car audio system that will produce your 8 and 4Hz tones, most of them run filters to cut anything below 10 to 15 Hz to protect
their system. The trick is to find an idiot that will allow you to turn off the protection filters and subject his system (and car) to 4Hz. Do a little research on youtube concerning car audio subwoofers to help identify the right kind of idiot--they do exist!
Subwoofer 4Hz!! - YouTube
I'd like to do this. Where do I get these, which ones should I get, do I need 1 per speaker and put it on the positive?
What cones do you suggest for the paradigms?
I don't have much money and got the paradigms (and the infinities) for 5 dollars per speaker. A chinese made cone that works well would be fine (we can imagine whatever failings it has simply adds to the audio interesting-ness that one does get in a cathedral setting anyway).
Note... the room inwhich this is in has a cathedral ceiling and is a rectangle (happily not a square).
The subwoofer says it goes down to 20hz.
I was also thinking of getting this:
18" Powered Subwoofer Bass Cabinet - 500 Watts RMS | Powered 18 Inch Sub Cab | Powered 18" sub woofer | Powered 18 sub | Power
to feel the feel at 40 to 100hz range (I think, you know the octave that really feels good, it's not all the way low... it's the middle strings on a bass gtar I think)
If I do get that should I put protection on it at some hz level?
I was thinking this maybe: 6 capacitors (4 for the 4 mains on the amp, 2 for if I fix the paradigms and that amp), 1 F-thing (for the '12 amp to keep it from going below 20hz), maybe another F-thing for the 18'powered cab
(Should I seal the 18 one?)
I think one of my tweeters on the paradigm is blown too somehow?
The room is 20 by 14 feet. The ceiling at it's apex is 16ft.
The subwoofer is a bic 1220
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-V-1220-430-Watt-Down-Firing-Subwoofer/dp/B0000Y2WYS
The subwoofer is a bic 1220
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-V-1220-430-Watt-Down-Firing-Subwoofer/dp/B0000Y2WYS
Don't bother, it would be cheaper to find another pair of the 5se's.
I'm surprised either of the tweeters survived. The crossover for the blown tweeter is probably cooked also.
jeff
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