Phase is a vector
Here is the Mexican with a bad English (hard to explain for me this concept)
My personal poit of view
The major problem is the back wave that is enclosed and it will be sumed to the other channel inside the box even with separate chambers,
My proponsal is to manage that backwave with a direction (vector, not scalar magnitude) to be added to the front wave to the corresponded side even with low end frequencies (2 woofers)
I'll post my latest pre-prototypes (12 years almost 80 pre-prototypes)
Saludos desde Mexico
Here is the Mexican with a bad English (hard to explain for me this concept)
My personal poit of view
The major problem is the back wave that is enclosed and it will be sumed to the other channel inside the box even with separate chambers,
My proponsal is to manage that backwave with a direction (vector, not scalar magnitude) to be added to the front wave to the corresponded side even with low end frequencies (2 woofers)
I'll post my latest pre-prototypes (12 years almost 80 pre-prototypes)
Saludos desde Mexico
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In my experience the SSS sounded quite natural and coherent. Although I found the filter quite fiddly to set up correctly, especially crossing over to a mono bass mid woofer. Never managed to get it quite right and moved on to other builds. Working with a higher efficiency driver like the 3fe22 and turning the mid driver to the front wall or upfiring sounds like it could be interesting in the SSS configuration. Just a hunch, based on my experience.
I thought about DSP version, but getting the matrix wiring working made my head hurt.
I just saw these on the web, have not seen them in person nor heard them.
https://image-us.samsung.com/Samsun...20/FinalFile-2020-Giga-Spec-Sheet-T70_124.pdf
Samsung is trying to do a one box stereo speaker. The largest of the three models has an up firing 10" woofer with some unknown 2 way left and right. The smaller models seem to be 2 way only. To me the angle looks too wide for good stereo, but maybe they have some sort of matrix or DSP to deal with that. They are too ugly for me, although the "party lights" are tempting. However it is an interesting approach and could serve as inspiration for a DIY project.
https://image-us.samsung.com/Samsun...20/FinalFile-2020-Giga-Spec-Sheet-T70_124.pdf
Samsung is trying to do a one box stereo speaker. The largest of the three models has an up firing 10" woofer with some unknown 2 way left and right. The smaller models seem to be 2 way only. To me the angle looks too wide for good stereo, but maybe they have some sort of matrix or DSP to deal with that. They are too ugly for me, although the "party lights" are tempting.
However it is an interesting approach and could serve as inspiration for a DIY project.
Well now I have seen them in person, they are much larger than I expected. The 70 model is a beast. The also look much nicer than I expected, a quality build. Not fancy, they just appear well made and more sober than you think for a party machine. The angle between left and right is more severe than it looked in the photos, not sure how that will sound. Alas I did not get to hear them, but I will go down the mountain again to have a listen.
Yep, I'm going to completely audio nerd this one. I'll take a playlist of demo tracks on my phone. Normal stereo, wide stereo, mono and spoken voice. I want to know how well it renders stereo and mono, considering the very wide angle.
FWIW, I find switching pink noise from left to centre to right to be a good indicator.
I did an experiment yesterday on this subject. I had thought a pair of dipole drivers mounted at 90 degrees would give some useful stereo width by leveraging the back wall reflection (which would have discrete left and right zones). The precedence effect defeated that one - the sound was always obviously coming from the speakers, but there was some hint of "spaciousness". Nowhere near enough for a proper stereo image, though.
Chris
I did an experiment yesterday on this subject. I had thought a pair of dipole drivers mounted at 90 degrees would give some useful stereo width by leveraging the back wall reflection (which would have discrete left and right zones). The precedence effect defeated that one - the sound was always obviously coming from the speakers, but there was some hint of "spaciousness". Nowhere near enough for a proper stereo image, though.
Chris
I think DSP version would be the best for such speaker. It is just not enough freedom with passive solutions. I played quite a lot with different single speaker stereo techniques. But the best i have found is with MID/SIDE stereo manipulations included. here is the link https://www.baffless.com/single-speaker-stereo-1 for a short explanation.
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Hello !
This thread is dedicated for discussion of methods of generating stereo sound in a small room acoustic space by using a single DIY loudspeaker !
Encouraged by the results achieved in the Stereolith thread I explored the concept of single speaker stereo further:
http://elias.altervista.org/html/SingleSpeakerStereo.html
The general principle I'm using is this:
Interesting is the selection of parameter x !
When x = 0, the speaker is bipolar sideways projection (Stereolith).
When x = 1, the speaker is MS stereo.
I think the optimal value is about x = 0.5, which I'm using at the moment.
The Cardboard is back, but now totally different since enhanced with psychoacoustic vector steering !
I've been listening to this for about a week now, and results are very positive ! There is a great potential !
Experimenting recommended !
*************
EDIT 2017:
Dropbox has deceived their customers and eliminated public folders. Thus the pictures linked herein are not visible any longer.
Go to http://elias.altervista.org/html/SingleSpeakerStereo.html to see the pictures
Hello. As you can see (pictures below), I've been experimenting with a system which has something common with your single loudspeaker concept. The math presented is of course unrealistic because it models the speakers as resistors, but I still think that there is enough "truth" in it. Anyway, the system sounds very good. In fact, the result is less convincing if you place the satellites the way they are usually placed.
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No, jatketaan suomen kielellä.
Oman kokemukseni mukaan noista satelliiteista pitää puuttua pahin bassotoisto, muuten ääneen tulee kuminaa. Kuvassa näkyvät satelliitit ovatkin siksi yhden elementin kaiuttimia. Painottaakseni ääntä enemmän satelliiteille olen kokeillut vastuksen kytkemistä keskikaiuttimen rinnalle kuvassa näkyvällä tavalla. Kokemukset siitä ovat olleet hieman epämääräisiä, joten yleensä soittelen systeemiä ilman sitä.
P.S. Kuten kuvasta näkyy, voi periaatekuvassa olevan kolmen kaiutinjohdon yhdistämisen tehdä kätevästi keskikaiuttimen terminaalissa. 😁
Oman kokemukseni mukaan noista satelliiteista pitää puuttua pahin bassotoisto, muuten ääneen tulee kuminaa. Kuvassa näkyvät satelliitit ovatkin siksi yhden elementin kaiuttimia. Painottaakseni ääntä enemmän satelliiteille olen kokeillut vastuksen kytkemistä keskikaiuttimen rinnalle kuvassa näkyvällä tavalla. Kokemukset siitä ovat olleet hieman epämääräisiä, joten yleensä soittelen systeemiä ilman sitä.
P.S. Kuten kuvasta näkyy, voi periaatekuvassa olevan kolmen kaiutinjohdon yhdistämisen tehdä kätevästi keskikaiuttimen terminaalissa. 😁
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Olemme pienessä harrastajapiirissämme kehitelleet toistojärjestelmän nimeltään SOP, joka on Köykän ideoiman ortoperspekta-järjestelmän jatkokehitelmä. Sitä voisi käyttää tuon kaiutinrykelmän ohjaamisessa, jolloin kaiuttimien äänenvoimaa voisi ohjata vapaasti ja täsmällisesti vaaditun matematiikan mukaisesti.
Järjestelmä rakentuu kahden peruspalikan ympärille (SOP-ohjain ja MVU-yksikkö (master volume unit)) ja tarvitsee kaksi integroitua vahvistinta, joista toinen ohjaa keskikanavaa ja toinen sivukanavia. Kanavia ohjaavat signaalit ovat:
Keskikanava:
M=L+R
Sivukanavat:
LS=L-R+2kR
RS=R-L+2kL.
Parametri k saa arvoja väliltä 0...1 ja sitä asetellaan potentiometrillä SOP-ohjaimen etupaneelilta käsin. Kun k=0, on toisto vanhaa ortoperspektaa, ja kun erityisesti k=0.5, toistavat sivukaiuttimet "stereota".
Järjestelmä rakentuu kahden peruspalikan ympärille (SOP-ohjain ja MVU-yksikkö (master volume unit)) ja tarvitsee kaksi integroitua vahvistinta, joista toinen ohjaa keskikanavaa ja toinen sivukanavia. Kanavia ohjaavat signaalit ovat:
Keskikanava:
M=L+R
Sivukanavat:
LS=L-R+2kR
RS=R-L+2kL.
Parametri k saa arvoja väliltä 0...1 ja sitä asetellaan potentiometrillä SOP-ohjaimen etupaneelilta käsin. Kun k=0, on toisto vanhaa ortoperspektaa, ja kun erityisesti k=0.5, toistavat sivukaiuttimet "stereota".
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Dear acmn
Forum Rule #6
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/help/terms/
For respect to the members, here is the Google translation of the two previous posts from Finish:
Well, let's continue in Finnish.
According to my own experience, those satellites must lack the worst bass reproduction, otherwise the sound will be humming. The satellites shown in the picture are therefore single-element speakers. In order to emphasize the sound more on the satellites, I have tried connecting a resistor next to the center speaker as shown in the picture. Experiences with it have been a bit vague, so I usually call the system without it.
P.S. As you can see in the picture, the connection of the three speaker wires in the principle picture can be done conveniently in the terminal of the center speaker
In our small circle of enthusiasts, we have developed a repetition system called SOP, which is a further development of the orthoperspecta system devised by Köykä. It could be used to control that group of speakers, in which case the volume of the speakers could be controlled freely and precisely according to the required mathematics.
The system is built around two basic blocks (SOP controller and MVU unit (master volume unit)) and needs two integrated amplifiers, one of which controls the center channel and the other the side channels. The signals controlling the channels are:
Central Channel:
M=L+R
Side channels:
LS=L-R+2kR
RS=R-L+2kL.
Parameter k has values between 0...1 and is set with a potentiometer from the front panel of the SOP controller. When k=0, there is a reproduction of old orthoperspect, and especially when k=0.5, the side speakers reproduce "stereo".
George
Forum Rule #6
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/help/terms/
For respect to the members, here is the Google translation of the two previous posts from Finish:
Well, let's continue in Finnish.
According to my own experience, those satellites must lack the worst bass reproduction, otherwise the sound will be humming. The satellites shown in the picture are therefore single-element speakers. In order to emphasize the sound more on the satellites, I have tried connecting a resistor next to the center speaker as shown in the picture. Experiences with it have been a bit vague, so I usually call the system without it.
P.S. As you can see in the picture, the connection of the three speaker wires in the principle picture can be done conveniently in the terminal of the center speaker
In our small circle of enthusiasts, we have developed a repetition system called SOP, which is a further development of the orthoperspecta system devised by Köykä. It could be used to control that group of speakers, in which case the volume of the speakers could be controlled freely and precisely according to the required mathematics.
The system is built around two basic blocks (SOP controller and MVU unit (master volume unit)) and needs two integrated amplifiers, one of which controls the center channel and the other the side channels. The signals controlling the channels are:
Central Channel:
M=L+R
Side channels:
LS=L-R+2kR
RS=R-L+2kL.
Parameter k has values between 0...1 and is set with a potentiometer from the front panel of the SOP controller. When k=0, there is a reproduction of old orthoperspect, and especially when k=0.5, the side speakers reproduce "stereo".
George