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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker
Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker
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Old 5th January 2017, 10:19 PM   #451
PeteMcK is offline PeteMcK
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How would this work, using Elias's ideas?
the rear speakers bouncing off the wall, the forward speaker low passed:
(I'm thinking of a desktop situation)
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Impedance varies with frequency, use impedance plots of your drivers and make crossover calculations using the actual impedance of the driver at the crossover frequency
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Old 9th January 2017, 05:17 AM   #452
mexican is offline mexican  Mexico
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where do you live? there is no way to explain or understad until you listen the arrangement is the size of a shoe box, open baffle almost free air. I think it can be patented, I am looking for someone to share this adventure.

I think it does not interact with wals...
just special angles, there is no matrix

Last edited by mexican; 9th January 2017 at 05:20 AM. Reason: adding text
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Old 9th January 2017, 04:48 PM   #453
UnixMan is offline UnixMan  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcK View Post
How would this work, using Elias's ideas?
the rear speakers bouncing off the wall, the forward speaker low passed:
It all depends on how the speakers are driven.

If the three speakers are driven "mid-side" then perhaps yes, you may get something similar to Elias's designs (which basically are nothing else than the M/S microphone technique "reversed").

OTOH, if the two "back" speakers are simply driven by L and R signals, then it's something completely different. First of all, in such a case the front speaker is probably inessential (it's likely just a mono "sub" and/or it's used like an added center channel to avoid a possible "hole in the middle").

In any case, the reflections on the back wall will create two virtual speakers behind the wall (where the first reflection take place, thus way much more spaced apart than the real speakers are, depending on angle and distance from the back wall).

Such a setup may work well as far as the back wall will reflect sound without adding significant "coloration" to it. That is if it's equally well reflective at all frequencies within the audio range. Solid, stiff walls with even, flat surface (such as plastered bricks and/or concrete walls) should work well. OTOH, "light" walls made out of wood, drywall, etc., or walls made out of (or covered with) acoustically absorbent materials (and/or patterns) will likely not.

BTW: another way to look at such an arrangement (considering only the two angled speakers on the back, if they are driven by L and R signals, without stereo matrix processing) is to consider that it looks like an XY stereo mic setup... "reversed" (and pointed backwards).

If the speakers have the appropriate polar pattern, in principle it could work even "the other way 'round" (that is, front facing) ... problem is, I guess that most real-world speakers are not directional enough to make it work that way.

P.S.: also the traditional two-speaker stereo triangle can be seen as one of the common stereo mic. setup reversed... in fact, it's just like the spaced pair (a variation of the A-B technique, with much larger distance between the two mics). Given that it requires omni-directional mics, no surprise that IMO/IME the "traditional" speaker setup works best with omni speakers...


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Old 9th January 2017, 06:29 PM   #454
PeteMcK is offline PeteMcK
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Thanks for your input Unixman, I'll lash up a version of this some time soon, watch this space.....
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Old 9th January 2017, 08:16 PM   #455
mexican is offline mexican  Mexico
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Default The evil bachwave


wow, thanks, a lot of valued information! Just in time!

My crazy mind says: Everything is perfect until the baffle mixes both channels due their backwaves. EVEN with separate baffles....

Front waves not shown

speaker backwave..jpg

sorry for my terrible English.
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Old 25th February 2017, 03:29 PM   #456
jgazal is offline jgazal  Brazil
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Originally Posted by dwk123 View Post
I've recently become rather intrigued by the Smyth Realiser (www.smyth-research.com).

(...) what is remarkable is the near-universal opinion of reviewers/owners that it really actually delivers on the idea - it really sounds like you're listening to speakers in a room.

My second reaction is that this would seem to be an absolutely ideal way to (...) 'simply' measure a single high-quality mono speaker directly in front, and then separate the channels to eliminate the x-talk component - you get a real measured HRTF response and perfect x-talk cancellation. I'm so intrigued by this idea that I ordered an in-ear binaural mic setup to play with.
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This was going to be one of my questions to Smyth - whether their filter format was documented.

Does the Realiser deliver as advertised in your opinion?


Yes, absolutely on my list of extensions once the basic idea is validated. I already have an implementation of the Gerzon/Trifield approach done, and it would be the basis for the next step. I think it will be interesting to see how the inclusion/exclusion of xtalk in the side channels impacts the overall presentation - I'm not sure 'phantom' imaging between C/R for example will work correctly if all xtalk has been removed from the R response - I think it will have to be included but I guess that's part of the experiment.
Additional channels for height and/or ambiance could also follow as appropriate, although I'm not entirely sure how to derive height cues.
Have you addressed the derivation of height cues? Have you tried higher order ambisonics?

Do you believe the playback of binaural stereo recordings with head tracking and personalized dynamic convolution without the addition of crosstalk has the same performance than playback of 16 channel ambisonics output with the same head tracking and personalized dynamic convolution playback?

Please see the question and discussion at the following head-fi thread: head-if.org - Smyth Research Realiser A16 - post #596
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Old 26th February 2017, 08:20 AM   #457
DorinD is offline DorinD  Romania
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This guy is doing something similar Home - Aspen Pittman Designs

https://www.thomann.de/ro/aspen_pitt...pa_active.html
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Old 27th February 2017, 03:34 PM   #458
UnixMan is offline UnixMan  Italy
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Originally Posted by DorinD View Post
Actually, this is exactly what Elias have been doing since several years!

See here: SingleSpeakerStereo
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Last edited by UnixMan; 27th February 2017 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 27th February 2017, 03:55 PM   #459
Pepe is offline Pepe  Sweden
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Actually, this is exactly what Elias have been doing since several years!

See here: SingleSpeakerStereo
Almost, but the Aspen Pittman Designs use one driver in OB configuration for the side info. So not exactly the same and the side effects will (probably) effect the room in a different way and therefor should (probably) display a different sound field compared to Elias speaker.

Last edited by Pepe; 27th February 2017 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 17th April 2018, 08:18 AM   #460
tmuikku is offline tmuikku  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLS View Post
If you accept OP amps, it should be doable in simple differential/summing analog circuits:

L' = L- xR
C = (1-x) (L+R)
R' = R- xL

....
Very cool system Elias! I have to try this out!

Is there really need for active combining in line level? can' one just do the matrix between preamp and three power amps as illustrated with the speaker connection matrix? Given that the poweramps have equal input impedance.

Its very simple to use stereo amp and connect the speakers like the matrix, but this messes up speaker response if the speakers are multiway with passive crossovers?
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