Best midrange to pair with Beyma TPL-150

Beyma Solution

Someone will visit me the next couple of weeks, and maibe buy my big horn rig.
I am thinking about what could come next; i would get rid of horns, and build a direct radiator system, and use the Beyma TPL-150 as the core driver of a new system. I am thinking about a lower midrange driver, which would cover the range from 150hz to 1,5khz, and bass below. What would you suggest to be the best driver to mate with the Beyma's ? I think a MTM would be great. AE12TM ? 8" PHL's ? whatelse would you suggest ?

Angelo

Check this out:
http://beyma.com.ua/downloads/LARBEYMA .pdf
Regards,
WHG
 
Hi WHGeiger,

That Beyma system is very much meant for PA, consisting of MF/HF units which can be stacked to create line arrays.
Also it does not use the TPL150, which is special because it is an excellent HiFi unit coming from a PA manufacturer.

Yes I am aware of all that. It is the paired 10G40 drivers and enclosure that should interest you particularly when used with:

http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/TPL150H.pdf

Regards,

WHG
 
Last edited:
why was this model his first choice ? i would rather thinki in 8G40, or 8MI100.

Initially I tried (and still have) 8M60's, but these are out of production.
8M70V2's are exact like 8M60's; only the chassis is different.
Please note that, checking datasheets, there seem to be some differences between the two but I was told by Beyma that they are the same.
Total Q of these drivers suits open baffle very well, and frequency response is nicely flat without HF peaking, easing the crossover.
I choose the 8LW30 because it has a bit more linear excursion.
Both types sound very good in the MTM open baffle.
 
Initially I tried (and still have) 8M60's, but these are out of production.
8M70V2's are exact like 8M60's; only the chassis is different.
Please note that, checking datasheets, there seem to be some differences between the two but I was told by Beyma that they are the same.
Total Q of these drivers suits open baffle very well, and frequency response is nicely flat without HF peaking, easing the crossover.
I choose the 8LW30 because it has a bit more linear excursion.
Both types sound very good in the MTM open baffle.

I have no experience with open baffles. So closed or bass reflex box is my first choice. That does not mean, that i might one day try out, how open baffle sounds. My first choice so far is 10G40, or 10MI100. Since 10MI100 is a dedicated midrange, i don't know, if its better to use one of each, or both the same model.
 
I have no experience with open baffles. So closed or bass reflex box is my first choice. That does not mean, that i might one day try out, how open baffle sounds. My first choice so far is 10G40, or 10MI100. Since 10MI100 is a dedicated midrange, i don't know, if its better to use one of each, or both the same model.

You can often read on the forums that once you have open baffles you will not go back to boxed loudspeakers.
I must say that the lack of coloration of the open baffles is very appealing, I like it a lot.
In general sound stage is more diffuse compared with boxed loudspeakers; boxed loudspeakers have more of a sweet spot, with the open baffles I can walk around the room and the sound stage remains the same.
Open baffles can not be placed against a wall, but you can find enough on all this in the forums.

10G40 would be a good candidate too, but I have 8LW30's already which are a bit more "open" at the back (good for open baffle) thanks to the neodymium magnets.
10MI100 is not so flat and has pretty low linear excursion, more a pure midrange which could function very well in an enclosure.
 
I must say that the lack of coloration of the open baffles is very appealing, I like it a lot.

What most catched me in regard of TPL-150 is exactly its naturalness compared to horns. Lack of coloration is a important factor to me. My horn channel is placed ~ 1m from the wall, is that enough ? I have a pair of
JBL 2206 here, Fane Studio 8m, and Audax Medomex, and Woofex 34 :

Audax / Vega Cleveland - Audio Voice Acoustics

I could make a try with them.....
They would just need to be mounted on a baffle, using the same crossover, or some different crossover network would be required ? lower midrange, i use bandpass 150hz/6db, and 1,2khz/6db

certainly i would need to pad TPL-150 down , together with the midrange horn.
 
I must say that the lack of coloration of the open baffles is very appealing, I like it a lot.

I just made a quick experiment, and replaced the lower midrange horn with Audax Medomex in open baffle. I switched L-pad to the tpl-150, so both, S2, and Beyma, are padded down, and so the bass horn ( i raised lowpass to ~ 250hz ) , to match efficiency with the Audax. My first reaction : Wow !! It might be that i am on something here.......

001-3.jpg
 
Last edited:
I just made a quick experiment, and replaced the lower midrange horn with Audax Medomex in open baffle. I switched L-pad to the tpl-150, so both, S2, and Beyma, are padded down, and so the bass horn ( i raised lowpass to ~ 250hz ) , to match efficiency with the Audax. My first reaction : Wow !! It might be that i am on something here.......

Flat damped surround. ;)

Compression will set in fast though, and midrange "weight" will be lacking. For a single driver solution - again, consider the flat-damped larger mids from PHL, the larger in size the better the performance lower in freq.. Alternatively consider the Audax drivers in groupings of 4 or more (..though obviously the old alnico's are out.).

2521 from PHL:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/PHL_2521-FR-offaxis-0-15-30-45-60.gif
http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/PHL_2521-CSD.gif
http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/PHL_2521-HD.gif
 
Last edited:
Flat damped surround. ;)

Compression will set in fast though, and midrange "weight" will be lacking.

True. Noticed that already. Below 500hz, the Audax goes out of steam.
Mentioning Zaph Audio, they comment well on 18Sound 6ND430-16:

Zaph|Audio

Lightweight neo magnet assembly with cooling fins. A couple of these paired up for an MTM and used with a subwoofer would make a reference level system. High value for this level of performance.

that might be a interesting alternative.
 
Today i finished, and mounted the waveguides for the Beyma's. I made also some measurements with virtin RTA-168A, which arrived yesterday:



012-2.jpg




015-3.jpg



this is the frequency chart of the basshorn, measured at 1m distance, on axis:



basshornequalized.jpg



lower midrange horn. Based on the measurements, i lowpass it now with 12db slope:

lowmidrangehorn.jpg



Beyma TPL-150 with wave guide:

beyma-1.jpg



the whole system without Vitavox S2, and without sub:

sistematodosemS2.jpg



the whole system with Vitavox S2, and without sub:

sistematodocomS2.jpg



I have installed Holmimpulse, but i don't know how to use it, yet. May somebody can help me out.
 
Hi Angelo,

Using the Beyma TPL-150H myself, I follow your project closely:)

May I ask: How large is the waveguide you use for the Beyma? (What is the Fc?).

PS: The wavegiuides look great, by the way!

I have difficulties seeing the frequency numbers on the x-axis. Is it correct that the Beyma TPL-150/waveguide rolls off around 1200 Hz?

Thanks a lot!

Best regards
Peter
 
Hi Angelo,

Using the Beyma TPL-150H myself, I follow your project closely:)

May I ask: How large is the waveguide you use for the Beyma? (What is the Fc?).

PS: The wavegiuides look great, by the way!

I have difficulties seeing the frequency numbers on the x-axis. Is it correct that the Beyma TPL-150/waveguide rolls off around 1200 Hz?

Thanks a lot!

Best regards
Peter

hi Peter

the Beyma roll's off sharply at 1,2khz. The wave guide is 53cm large. When i painted it, i did not find a ingredient to use the same color as the horns, PU poliurethan half matt. So with the normal color used,they became more brilliant, which i don't like. And neither do they look good, this large. When i get the right color, i will paint them to have the same color as the horns, and i will make them smaller, in the end they will have similar size as the original wave guide. In terms of sound, to be honest, despite many do report they hear differences with the wave guide , i don't !! Are you using multi-amp's to drive your system ? I am thinking about that, and try a tapped horn.

Angelo
 
Hi Angelo,

Thanks for responding! Could you please tell me the on axis depth of the waveguide (from throat to mouth)?

Yes, I do use a dedicated amp per driver (and digital crossovers). So far I have had no trouble mounting the amp directly to the Beyma.

Thanks!

Best regards
Peter
 
Hi Angelo,

Thanks for responding! Could you please tell me the on axis depth of the waveguide (from throat to mouth)?

Yes, I do use a dedicated amp per driver (and digital crossovers). So far I have had no trouble mounting the amp directly to the Beyma.

Thanks!

Best regards
Peter

hi Peter

here the drawing with measures.

Beyma-2.jpg


are you getting good integration between your lower mid horn, and the Beyma ?I suspect a direct radiator, MTM configuration, might combine and integrate better with the Beyma.

Angelo
 
hi Peter

here the drawing with measures.

Beyma-2.jpg


are you getting good integration between your lower mid horn, and the Beyma ?I suspect a direct radiator, MTM configuration, might combine and integrate better with the Beyma.

Angelo


Hi Angelo,

Thanks for providing the dimensions for your waveguides!

Regarding integration problem:
I sit pretty far away from my horn rig, so I quess that my problems related to integration is fairly small compared to near-field setups. However, I do have two kinds of problems:

1. There is a mismatch in horizontal dispersion between my conical low-mid horns (60° dispersion) and the Beyma horns (80° dispersion). I do not experience this as a huge problem, but there is no doubt that matched dispersion would be preferable.

2. I have problems having the low-mid horns 'reach' the Beyma TPLs frequency wise. The conical low-mid horns (with a Fane Studio 8M) drops off at 1,000 Hz, whereas the Beyma only loads down to 1,300 Hz. Consequently, I have to eq the low-mid/Fane in order to make the two sources 'reach' each other.

In an attempt to solve these problems, I am having a guy much more skilled in woodworking than me making some fairly large waveguides with a 60° horizontal dispersion for the Beyma TPL's in order to see whether they can be used below 1,000 Hz. It will take a while before I have these waveguides at hand though....

Best regards
Peter
 
2. I have problems having the low-mid horns 'reach' the Beyma TPLs frequency wise. The conical low-mid horns (with a Fane Studio 8M) drops off at 1,000 Hz, whereas the Beyma only loads down to 1,300 Hz. Consequently, I have to eq the low-mid/Fane in order to make the two sources 'reach' each other.

hi Peter,

that observation seems a littlebig strange to me.

The Fane Studio 8m as direct radiator starts to roll off well beyond 5khz :

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


and your conical horn acts less as natural lowpass filter, than mine.
I dicovered actually the oposit, after making measurements. The lower midrange horn had strong output well beyond 2khz, thats why i lowpass it now with 12db filter. And even so, it still is linear up to 2khz:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


btw. i thought you were still using the P.Audio 5" cone speaker. Is the Fane better ?
 
In an attempt to solve these problems, I am having a guy much more skilled in woodworking than me making some fairly large waveguides with a 60° horizontal dispersion for the Beyma TPL's in order to see whether they can be used below 1,000 Hz. It will take a while before I have these waveguides at hand though....

Waveguides are for dispersion control.
When you need a lower cutoff you would need a horn, which has a different flare.
In my expierence the TPL150 sounds best when crossed not far below 2k.
If you try to squeeze more mid out of them I am am pretty sure you will loose treble quality.