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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
Introduction to designing crossovers without measurement
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:50 AM   #701
carlthess40 is offline carlthess40  United States
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Those are some crazy looking crossovers and looks like you spend a ton of time on them. I need you to do my crossovers for my towers
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Old 8th July 2019, 02:10 AM   #702
carlthess40 is offline carlthess40  United States
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Would you be open to designing a crossover system for me? I can give you all the info of each of the drivers and the size of the cabs they are in and the port size
I just need the layout and all and I can build the crossovers
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Old 8th July 2019, 08:20 PM   #703
tubemax is offline tubemax  Netherlands
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Hi Spinifex & Carlthess40,

Thanks for kind words, I really need to make one thing clear - I'm complete beginner when it comes about passive crossover design, I have never done it before this project. I did make couple of speakers trough the years but they were all someone else design.
This time I wanted to grab the Bull by the Horns and see where will I end up...

So far these little gems are just putting enormous smile on my face each time I listen to them or look at them... really special sound.

The final crossover I ended up is presented here, I need to say that I changed "correct" values in favour of nicer and warmer sounding speaker as oppose to the flat and lifeless first emulation.

What that means is that I probably do not have anymore perfect phase integration between tweeter and woofer but I really did not like sound of such "perfect" text book match.
What I ended up is Low-pass with classic bass hump to help bottom octave and slight BBC dip in the midrange to ease down and help longer listening sessions.

This is highly personal set-up so I'm not really bothered if is not up to the flat studio standard or if I could drive them with 100 Watts of power without compression etc...
I just wanted something that sounds human and warm but with high dose of musicality - I think I succeeded spot on!

The whole point is to make something valuable ( in musical terms ) for your personal preference, not for marketing reasons!

I really doubt if I could help you in designing crossover for you without running entire cycle as I did with this one and it took me 6 months of my lifetime.
My kind of specialty is building tube amps, not really speakers but I need to admit it is very addictive and satisfying hobby.

I hope that I have answered some questions...
Attached Images
File Type: png Mini Monitor Crossover.png (70.2 KB, 218 views)
File Type: png Mini Monitor Variable High-pass crossover.PNG (62.8 KB, 232 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0982.jpg (649.1 KB, 205 views)
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Old 8th July 2019, 09:33 PM   #704
carlthess40 is offline carlthess40  United States
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Thank you for your input
Trust me when I say your way ahead of 90% of people with crossovers with people that build speakers. Thank you for your one on one time and I understand what you are saying. To bad your over seas. I have a EL84 pcb boards to build
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Old 9th July 2019, 05:44 AM   #705
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubemax View Post
I changed "correct" values in favour of nicer and warmer sounding speaker as oppose to the flat and lifeless first emulation.
This makes sense, and first you tweak around the baffle step to bring the bass into line.

But 'flat' is not necessarily correct, although it should be smooth. Often a downward tilt of the treble is wanted. Typically differing directivities also support variations from flat.
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Old 9th July 2019, 09:11 PM   #706
tubemax is offline tubemax  Netherlands
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Hi AllenB,

Yes, first emulated crossover was kind off predictable sounding, I would say like many commercial speakers, not what I wanted this time... so I went with changing values ( not much ), creating bass hump, mid deep... until I found acceptable sweet spot.
I actually ended up with slightly tilted-up high end - probably because tweeter sounded a bit shy in top octave, once I placed capacitor of sufficient value - all was set " flat " to my ears!

EL84 tubes are gems, they really shine in any configuration ( SE or PP ) as long is enough power for your speakers of course. My last tube amp was SE RH84, but I need more power for these new speakers... maybe PPP EL84 mono block this time...
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Old 10th July 2019, 06:14 AM   #707
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubemax View Post
EL84 tubes are gems,
They are, but there are other fine choices if you want to keep the same topology in a higher power range.

High efficiency speakers are another option. Not only because they suit the smaller output device.
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Old 10th July 2019, 09:19 PM   #708
stocktrader200 is offline stocktrader200  Canada
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6922's are gems as well. I am using 2 to drive my SS amp ( 75w ). The sound quality is outstanding.
next project is a new crossover for 4 way HPM-900. The midrange and tweeter need phase alignment, mid is reverse connected with woofer and tweeter(s). Woofers newly re-foamed and in perfect condition.

Last edited by stocktrader200; 10th July 2019 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 2nd September 2019, 09:20 AM   #709
Richard10 is offline Richard10  United Kingdom
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Default Increasing value of bass shunt capacitor

Allen B thanks so much for your tutorial.

I have SEAS ER18RNX and 27TDFC drive units in 19 litre floorstander cabinets with a Zaph SR71 crossover. The speakers have to be fairly close to the back wall and this resulted in a rather heavy balance with a muffled midrange.

Zaph gives details of a reduced BSC crossover (this reduces L7 to 2.5 mH and R0 to 3 ohms) which certainly made things clearer, but the midrange was now much too forward and fatiguing. Looking at post 13 of this thread about increasing the value of the bass shunt capacitor I put a 2.2uf in addition to the existing 12uf (C9) and changed the tweeter resistor (R0) to 3.5 ohms This improved things but I really need to increase C9 a bit more.

My question is if I do this will I mess up the crossover? The inductors I fitted are quite expensive and low value caps are comparatively cheap.
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Old 2nd September 2019, 12:07 PM   #710
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Yes, walls are great when the speaker expects them but they are the worst otherwise. Comb filtering is difficult to deal with (random appropriate image). The result varies with angle. A null isn't something that can be undone with a change in level, and it's also a high Q effect.

An acoustic solution might be the easiest and most successful. This includes extending the baffle or using absorbing material in the reflection region.

As far as your filter, yes that will be fine. As you increase the capacitance you lower the cross and increase the response around the 'knee'. This is a gentle increase until the Q of the filter approaches and exceeds 1. The capacitance will be closer to 40uF by that time. Hopefully you can find something that works at a more gradual level than that.
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File Type: gif comb-filtering.gif (29.8 KB, 106 views)
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