Ok,
Without wanting to start a tweeter religious war, I'd like some opinions on morel tweeters. Specifically MDT 30 (or MDT 30-S) and MDT 33.
I don't need high sensitivity, my woofers are only somewhere between 88 and 89db. Vifa 10" M26WR-09-08. I haven't decided on a new midrange yet (current is a Phillips dome, can't remember the model number, but it has to go!).
Salas had some interesting comments which tended to lead this thead (about where to buy morel drivers in Australia) http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18591 off topic a bit.
I checked out a few audax tweeters (I couldn't find the one he mentioned, and they seem to rise significantly in sensitivity past about 5K. His main complaint about the morel's was that they sounded dead above about 5K in a large room, so I'm wondering whether its a personal preference thing (ie Salas prefers really prominent hf?).
I personally prefer the sound of Textile dome tweeters, really don't like vifa Metal domes (haven't really heard any other varieties of metal dome, that I can think of).
So If anyone with experience using the above morel tweeters (or listening to them in biggish living rooms, mine is probably about 30 sq M) could comment then I would really appreciate it
I've just found where I can get the morel tweeters, but I'm not as sure about it as I used to be.
Wintermute.
Without wanting to start a tweeter religious war, I'd like some opinions on morel tweeters. Specifically MDT 30 (or MDT 30-S) and MDT 33.
I don't need high sensitivity, my woofers are only somewhere between 88 and 89db. Vifa 10" M26WR-09-08. I haven't decided on a new midrange yet (current is a Phillips dome, can't remember the model number, but it has to go!).
Salas had some interesting comments which tended to lead this thead (about where to buy morel drivers in Australia) http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18591 off topic a bit.
I checked out a few audax tweeters (I couldn't find the one he mentioned, and they seem to rise significantly in sensitivity past about 5K. His main complaint about the morel's was that they sounded dead above about 5K in a large room, so I'm wondering whether its a personal preference thing (ie Salas prefers really prominent hf?).
I personally prefer the sound of Textile dome tweeters, really don't like vifa Metal domes (haven't really heard any other varieties of metal dome, that I can think of).
So If anyone with experience using the above morel tweeters (or listening to them in biggish living rooms, mine is probably about 30 sq M) could comment then I would really appreciate it
I've just found where I can get the morel tweeters, but I'm not as sure about it as I used to be.
Wintermute.
I like my mdt-33's
If you prefer a more natural sound, with less top end sparkle, you might like the Morels. I really like the upper midrange, but I do find the extreme top end to be a little veiled (although, to me this is more natural). I also don't care for metal dome sizzle sound. One thing that is nice about the extra sensitivity is that you can pad them down, and then bypass the pad on the high end with a cap to tune in the amount of high end you want.
The rooms I have listened to these in are small-medium sized, for your reference.
If you prefer a more natural sound, with less top end sparkle, you might like the Morels. I really like the upper midrange, but I do find the extreme top end to be a little veiled (although, to me this is more natural). I also don't care for metal dome sizzle sound. One thing that is nice about the extra sensitivity is that you can pad them down, and then bypass the pad on the high end with a cap to tune in the amount of high end you want.
The rooms I have listened to these in are small-medium sized, for your reference.
A26 is very new...
Hello,
You can find it in their French retailer www.e44.com though...
I attach a response file of my own because they dont seem to have any worthy information out yet.
Keep in mind that Morels rise on baffles too as many other tweeters do. The A20 titanium does not sound harsh though. I dont like much HF too. I prefer the A26 cloth in some occasions.
Is there an Audax importer in Australia?
Regards
Salas
Hello,
You can find it in their French retailer www.e44.com though...
I attach a response file of my own because they dont seem to have any worthy information out yet.
Keep in mind that Morels rise on baffles too as many other tweeters do. The A20 titanium does not sound harsh though. I dont like much HF too. I prefer the A26 cloth in some occasions.
Is there an Audax importer in Australia?
Regards
Salas
Attachments
Re: A26 is very new...
Thanks Guys,
The mdt33's will cost me about $270 aus per pair more than MDT30's so I think that I've pretty much convinced myself that they would be woth the extra bucks. (after all $270aus is not going to be that much in the whole scheme of things price wise).....
Very nice Idea, I'll probably have to attenuate them at least 5db so that could lift the top end quite significantly if I feel its a little lacking, which I may well not. Hadn't thought of that before (xover newbe).
Thanks for posting the freq plot salas, did you measure it yourself, or have you got some inside contacts at Audax I looked on their e44 site and as you said no info on the A26 at all. It's response curve looks pretty peaky??
There is one distributor listed on LDSG, ME sound. no mention on their website (only amps), I'm reasonably certain I have seen them on some Ausie web sites in my travels though.
You should get some ex mainframe diskdrive Head stepper magnets. They are fun (just don't drop one in each pocket
). You can pick up things weighing at least 3KG's with them. Strongest magnets I've ever seen especially when you consider the size, only about 40mm X 30mm X 7 mm thick.
Thanks Sonicfury you've pretty much sealed the deal.
I went back to LDSG's morel reccomendations (available here: http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/morel.php3 )
and to quote them:
So I'm figuring that since my taste seems to be simmilar to Nobody Special, and Sonic Fury also agrees with him, I'll probably be pretty safe with MDT33's.
Thanks Guys,
The mdt33's will cost me about $270 aus per pair more than MDT30's so I think that I've pretty much convinced myself that they would be woth the extra bucks. (after all $270aus is not going to be that much in the whole scheme of things price wise).....
nobody special said:
Very nice Idea, I'll probably have to attenuate them at least 5db so that could lift the top end quite significantly if I feel its a little lacking, which I may well not. Hadn't thought of that before (xover newbe).
salas said:
Thanks for posting the freq plot salas, did you measure it yourself, or have you got some inside contacts at Audax
I looked on their e44 site and as you said no info on the A26 at all. It's response curve looks pretty peaky??There is one distributor listed on LDSG, ME sound. no mention on their website (only amps), I'm reasonably certain I have seen them on some Ausie web sites in my travels though.
SumTingsBurning said:
You should get some ex mainframe diskdrive Head stepper magnets. They are fun (just don't drop one in each pocket
). You can pick up things weighing at least 3KG's with them. Strongest magnets I've ever seen especially when you consider the size, only about 40mm X 30mm X 7 mm thick.sonicfury said:
Thanks Sonicfury you've pretty much sealed the deal.
I went back to LDSG's morel reccomendations (available here: http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/morel.php3 )
and to quote them:
So I'm figuring that since my taste seems to be simmilar to Nobody Special, and Sonic Fury also agrees with him, I'll probably be pretty safe with MDT33's.
Yes I have seen these magnets. I used to work in the disk drive industry. Very strong. I even made a speaker out of a head acutator assembly. It wasn't very good. Too much mass. About the MDT-33's they are not bad but I think you can get better for less $$ IMHO. You want a used pair for not too much money? They work fine but are pretty dusty. Too bad shippping aint cheap.
That may be the truth. Too bad you can't audition a few different tweeters before deciding.
I am happy with mine. I prefer the "layed back" sound. I have been playing drums since I was 9 years old (28 now), and I find the sound of cymbals to be very natural with this tweeter, especially on SACD's. On a good recording they wash instead of sizzle, which is how they naturally sound.
I liked my cheap MDT-20 tweeters so I wanted to try the MDT-33s. Make sure whomever you buy them from isn't a pain to return damaged goods. The standard packaging for them does not hold up well when shipped. They ship them in little boxes with nylon standoffs to keep the dome from touching the box. Problem is one or more of those fall off and make their way to the dome smashing it beyond repair. This happened twice. After the second time I gave up and got my money back. Nothing like getting excited to see your new toys have arrived only to open an undamaged box with destroyed tweets inside. 
I'd go so far as to ask that they ditch the Morel packaging and repackage them. I hope I don't discourage you too much, I'm sure they're great drivers. I don't know if there is a difference between Morel Israel and Morel USA packaging
I'd go so far as to ask that they ditch the Morel packaging and repackage them. I hope I don't discourage you too much, I'm sure they're great drivers. I don't know if there is a difference between Morel Israel and Morel USA packaging
Heartbreaking I bet. Were they from Israel, or USA?
In Australia we only have the Israel Morels. The person I have been talking to is very helpful, and I'm sure he will repackage if the standard packaging is not adequate (I'll definitely ask the question). Thanks for the tip, some of the pc's we have sent via courier have turned up at the other end with no obvious damage to the packaging, but with the cases bent out of shape, and cards poped out od their slots. It makes you wonder sometimes!
Wintermute.
In Australia we only have the Israel Morels. The person I have been talking to is very helpful, and I'm sure he will repackage if the standard packaging is not adequate (I'll definitely ask the question). Thanks for the tip, some of the pc's we have sent via courier have turned up at the other end with no obvious damage to the packaging, but with the cases bent out of shape, and cards poped out od their slots. It makes you wonder sometimes!
Wintermute.
Peaky
The file A20 response file is my own.
Just measure any loudspeaker with enough sampling res and you will see the truth...Its always full of fine peaks and throughs.
The ones you see on specs are smoothed over.
In the older days they used to run paper slower on the plotter, now they use less sampling resolution.
Those graphs you see show in the end what the ear homogenizes any way. Not a real cheat but pleasing to the eye too!
If you end up in a Morel my suggestion is the 30.
The law of diminishing returns kicks in heavily with the 33.
Its main plus is the sensitivity but you say its worthless in your scheme of things.
As for the new Audaxes vs (very old designed & Dynaudio copied)Morels I am personally convinced that the Audaxes as well as some Focals win hands down because I have done head to head comparisons in my own stuff.
Cheers
Salas
The file A20 response file is my own.
Just measure any loudspeaker with enough sampling res and you will see the truth...Its always full of fine peaks and throughs.
The ones you see on specs are smoothed over.
In the older days they used to run paper slower on the plotter, now they use less sampling resolution.
Those graphs you see show in the end what the ear homogenizes any way. Not a real cheat but pleasing to the eye too!
If you end up in a Morel my suggestion is the 30.
The law of diminishing returns kicks in heavily with the 33.
Its main plus is the sensitivity but you say its worthless in your scheme of things.
As for the new Audaxes vs (very old designed & Dynaudio copied)Morels I am personally convinced that the Audaxes as well as some Focals win hands down because I have done head to head comparisons in my own stuff.
Cheers
Salas
Hi Salas,
The sensitivity may not be an issue any more. After talking with the morel distributer, he suggested a MTM config with a separate amp for the vifa's, I'm thinking seriously about that. Need to do a bit more research, and decide whether I am up to tackling an MTM design.
I think it would be nice if there was some independent testing lab that tested all drivers for all manufacturers, so you would know what you are getting (within reason), as you said they use tricks to make them look better. I really have to get myself some test gear, I'd like to know what my current speakers are like (how bad), and be able to better tune the new ones too (and see how much better they are..... hopefully).
Unfortunately I am cursed with a gene which always makes me go with the most expensive option (within reason). I find that if I do buy the cheaper option I end up regretting it and wish I had spent the extra money, so these days I just don't worry and end up forking out the extra cash.
To give an example, when I bought my DVD player (to replace my dead CD player), I wanted something that would be good for music too, I could have bought a sub $1000 unit, but I ended up buying a Marantz DV18 (at a bit over $2200 It was a while ago when they were still $2699 RRP), so an extra $275 dollars for the MDT33's isn't going to worry me too much. ( They did show me one that cost $16,000, but I most definitely wasn't interested in that!)
I tend to be pretty frugal normally, but that means when I do decide to spend, I can splurge a bit
Regards,
Wintermute.
The sensitivity may not be an issue any more. After talking with the morel distributer, he suggested a MTM config with a separate amp for the vifa's, I'm thinking seriously about that. Need to do a bit more research, and decide whether I am up to tackling an MTM design.
I think it would be nice if there was some independent testing lab that tested all drivers for all manufacturers, so you would know what you are getting (within reason), as you said they use tricks to make them look better. I really have to get myself some test gear, I'd like to know what my current speakers are like (how bad), and be able to better tune the new ones too (and see how much better they are..... hopefully).
Unfortunately I am cursed with a gene which always makes me go with the most expensive option (within reason). I find that if I do buy the cheaper option I end up regretting it and wish I had spent the extra money, so these days I just don't worry and end up forking out the extra cash.
To give an example, when I bought my DVD player (to replace my dead CD player), I wanted something that would be good for music too, I could have bought a sub $1000 unit, but I ended up buying a Marantz DV18 (at a bit over $2200 It was a while ago when they were still $2699 RRP), so an extra $275 dollars for the MDT33's isn't going to worry me too much. ( They did show me one that cost $16,000, but I most definitely wasn't interested in that!)
I tend to be pretty frugal normally, but that means when I do decide to spend, I can splurge a bit
Regards,
Wintermute.
Good luck
Hope the best for your efforts with the speakers.
What to watch out in MTMs is to have 90 degrees phase difference between woofers and tweeter. Anything else is not a Dapolito. You may need to recess the mid response by 1 to 1.5 dB because MTMs tend to sound too forward due to much energy around the crossover range and too much horizontal dispersion.
Get a software and a calibrated mic. Go for RTA type software not impulse.
Hope the best for your efforts with the speakers.
What to watch out in MTMs is to have 90 degrees phase difference between woofers and tweeter. Anything else is not a Dapolito. You may need to recess the mid response by 1 to 1.5 dB because MTMs tend to sound too forward due to much energy around the crossover range and too much horizontal dispersion.
Get a software and a calibrated mic. Go for RTA type software not impulse.
Re: Good luck
Thanks Salas,
I downloaded Paul Verdones baffle simulation spreadsheet. I always knew that my existing cabinets were a bad design (I didn't make them, were given to me years ago, I have just changed drivers, xovers, and the baffle). But I never realised how much of an effect the baffles were having on the sound. Seeing the graphs of something not nearly as bad as mine shows signifigant peaks and dips at regular points and now I know why a sweep on my existing speakers tends to warble up and down.
It's amazing what a difference using the right tools (I know this from working on cars!) can make (and a bit of knowledge) so I think if I get the mic It will be one more tool in the toolbox, to help with the design.
I'll do some research on Dapolito too (until yesterday I hadn't even considered MTM). Should go out and buy the loudspeaker cookbook too, I've been using "Designing, Building and testing your own speaker system" 4th ed David B Weems, as well as "Loudspeaker and Headphone Handbook" edited by John Borwick, Butterworths, 1988 (Which is extremely heavy on the theory side). Be nice to get a different perspective on things, and the loudspeaker cookbook seems to be the most highly recommended.
And I thought I was almost ready to start building boy was I wrong!
salas said:
Thanks Salas,
I downloaded Paul Verdones baffle simulation spreadsheet. I always knew that my existing cabinets were a bad design (I didn't make them, were given to me years ago, I have just changed drivers, xovers, and the baffle). But I never realised how much of an effect the baffles were having on the sound. Seeing the graphs of something not nearly as bad as mine shows signifigant peaks and dips at regular points and now I know why a sweep on my existing speakers tends to warble up and down.
It's amazing what a difference using the right tools (I know this from working on cars!) can make (and a bit of knowledge) so I think if I get the mic It will be one more tool in the toolbox, to help with the design.
I'll do some research on Dapolito too (until yesterday I hadn't even considered MTM). Should go out and buy the loudspeaker cookbook too, I've been using "Designing, Building and testing your own speaker system" 4th ed David B Weems, as well as "Loudspeaker and Headphone Handbook" edited by John Borwick, Butterworths, 1988 (Which is extremely heavy on the theory side). Be nice to get a different perspective on things, and the loudspeaker cookbook seems to be the most highly recommended.
And I thought I was almost ready to start building boy was I wrong!
Re: Re: Re: Good luck
LOL This project has already been going for over a year, and all I had done was choose some drivers and design the cabinets. Now I'm not going to use the same mid/bases any more so back to the drawing board. Admittedly, I was very intensive for about 3 weeks and then left it for the last 12 months, now I'm back at it again
relder said:
That's the problem with a hobby as potentially complex as this one. You keep learning, continually changing potential designs such that you never get anything built.So think before getting that cookbook!
LOL This project has already been going for over a year, and all I had done was choose some drivers and design the cabinets. Now I'm not going to use the same mid/bases any more so back to the drawing board. Admittedly, I was very intensive for about 3 weeks and then left it for the last 12 months, now I'm back at it again
I happen to like silk dome tweeters myself. The 2 sites below have some independent info on some Morel tweeters...
http://www.speakerdesign.net/home.html
http://www.murphyblaster.com/
Below is my Morel MDT39 on a tiny 6" x 8" baffle, measured a bit off axis. Below that is how it combines with the midrange I'm using...after optimizing the xover. Ignore anything below 500hz.
Sorry for the huge gif.
http://www.speakerdesign.net/home.html
http://www.murphyblaster.com/
Below is my Morel MDT39 on a tiny 6" x 8" baffle, measured a bit off axis. Below that is how it combines with the midrange I'm using...after optimizing the xover. Ignore anything below 500hz.
Sorry for the huge gif.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
jbateman said:
Thanks, Always good to see more info, make me feel more confident. I'm going to have to leave it for a day or two, I'm overloaded at the moment, need to take a break, do something other than obsess about speakers
.......... The GIF didn't come through, maybe it was over the limit, shouldn't have been a problem this end, I've got 512K ADSL.- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.