Hi
There's been some discussion from time to time on side firing woofers but not enough for me to make an opinion, so...
I had an idea to use the following drivers in a 3 way config:
1 x Peerless 850146 10" CSX side fired on a 400mm baffle
2 x Peerless 850488 5" HDS mids on a 220mm front baffle
1 x Peerless or Vifa tweeter (not sure yet)
XO for the woof/mid at around 125hz, mid/tweet around 3500.
What are the design problems I'm likely to face here?
Feedback much appreciated.
Mos
There's been some discussion from time to time on side firing woofers but not enough for me to make an opinion, so...
I had an idea to use the following drivers in a 3 way config:
1 x Peerless 850146 10" CSX side fired on a 400mm baffle
2 x Peerless 850488 5" HDS mids on a 220mm front baffle
1 x Peerless or Vifa tweeter (not sure yet)
XO for the woof/mid at around 125hz, mid/tweet around 3500.
What are the design problems I'm likely to face here?
Feedback much appreciated.
Mos
Why isn't it a problem 7V? because those frequencies aren't directional?
It looks like a great way of making a more elegant cabinet. The Mission 782 have side firing woofers. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but most magazines rate them high, apart from the bass that seems a bit odd...
It didn't really sound odd to me when I listend to them in a store though.
It looks like a great way of making a more elegant cabinet. The Mission 782 have side firing woofers. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but most magazines rate them high, apart from the bass that seems a bit odd...
It didn't really sound odd to me when I listend to them in a store though.
well if u did a search, you probably would have found my questions about it before i made mine
similarly, mine had a single 1" dome tweeter, 2x5" mids and 1x8". i went for the 8" because my enclosures were big enough, and a 10" (at least one i could afford) didn't have very good response in that size enclosure. by the way, i used all Response drivers.
i've tried a couple of things with mine to get good sound out of them. i originally put the mid/tweet xo @ 3.5k 2nd order. i then didn't bother crossing the 8"s over, but just ran both the mid/tweet combo, and 8" parallel in full range. i did this because i hadn't gotten around to purchasing components for the rest of the crossover, and i was thinking about bi-amping.
i am still yet to try it like this with the 8" facing inward, but facing outwards there was no imaging problem.
i then, using a active xo built into my pc, ran them bi-amped. i can change the xo freq variably with a slider. it will depend on your driver sensitivity and response, but i found around 130Hz to be good. this was because my 5"s (in a sealed enclosure) response started to get around -1dB at this point.
i would honestly like the 8" to be on the front, but a 10" like you're using would be a little big. i however want the small front profile of these cabinets of mine (around 16cm wide externally).
i should also mention that my 8"s are also sealed, but the response down low is fine for music, and for movies i have my sub (so ultimately i'm running a 4-way system for movies
).
similarly, mine had a single 1" dome tweeter, 2x5" mids and 1x8". i went for the 8" because my enclosures were big enough, and a 10" (at least one i could afford) didn't have very good response in that size enclosure. by the way, i used all Response drivers.
i've tried a couple of things with mine to get good sound out of them. i originally put the mid/tweet xo @ 3.5k 2nd order. i then didn't bother crossing the 8"s over, but just ran both the mid/tweet combo, and 8" parallel in full range. i did this because i hadn't gotten around to purchasing components for the rest of the crossover, and i was thinking about bi-amping.
i am still yet to try it like this with the 8" facing inward, but facing outwards there was no imaging problem.
i then, using a active xo built into my pc, ran them bi-amped. i can change the xo freq variably with a slider. it will depend on your driver sensitivity and response, but i found around 130Hz to be good. this was because my 5"s (in a sealed enclosure) response started to get around -1dB at this point.
i would honestly like the 8" to be on the front, but a 10" like you're using would be a little big. i however want the small front profile of these cabinets of mine (around 16cm wide externally).
i should also mention that my 8"s are also sealed, but the response down low is fine for music, and for movies i have my sub (so ultimately i'm running a 4-way system for movies
).
Yes, keep the freqiencies low enough and you could even put the woofers in separate boxes, I do.DIY_Peter said:
You're probably right. You would be 3dB down at 125Hz and 15dB down at 250Hz. For a side firing woofer in the same cabinet this will probably be fine. I would say not a separate box job though, with 2nd order at 125Hz.Mos Fetish said:
Yes, this issue does polarise opinions. I suspect that this is as much psychological as actual, if the implementation is right.
The difference is in center-to-center spacing.
If the centers of the bass unit and midrange are ½ wavelength apart at the crossover frequency, there will be cancellation there. If they are ¼ wavelength apart there, there might be some cancellation, like 3 dB. If they are much less than ¼ apart, you don't have to worry.
If the centers of the bass unit and midrange are ½ wavelength apart at the crossover frequency, there will be cancellation there. If they are ¼ wavelength apart there, there might be some cancellation, like 3 dB. If they are much less than ¼ apart, you don't have to worry.
An old thread but I have the same question now: planning a somewhat unusual big box for my woofer, active 3-way setup, woofer crossed to midrange section at 125kHz with 4th order Linkwitz Riley. Is this frequency range still low enough to avoid directivity of sound ?
My intention is to make the box look beautiful with a thinner look at the front so the woofer would be on the side. I know 125Hz might be thin ice (100Hz or even lower, 80Hz would be thin ice for the midranges then), but ... would a 125Hz XO point work, without the need of the woofer facing directly the audience ? I don't want to go 4-way. Yet.
What do you think ?
My intention is to make the box look beautiful with a thinner look at the front so the woofer would be on the side. I know 125Hz might be thin ice (100Hz or even lower, 80Hz would be thin ice for the midranges then), but ... would a 125Hz XO point work, without the need of the woofer facing directly the audience ? I don't want to go 4-way. Yet.
What do you think ?
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That's getting high, even though some small subs go above 100hz. Experience shows us that in average-size listening rooms subs with a high-ish rolloff can be located. Two subs avoids the problem, of course.
And you have two woofers, but it's a stereo system and bass frequencies need to be image well just like higher frequencies.
Fits into the general topic of beaming: beaming
If you're active, it's not too hard to lower that crossover point, yes?
And you have two woofers, but it's a stereo system and bass frequencies need to be image well just like higher frequencies.
Fits into the general topic of beaming: beaming
If you're active, it's not too hard to lower that crossover point, yes?
An old thread but I have the same question now: planning a somewhat unusual big box for my woofer, active 3-way setup, woofer crossed to midrange section at 125kHz with 4th order Linkwitz Riley. Is this frequency range still low enough to avoid directivity of sound ?
My intention is to make the box look beautiful with a thinner look at the front so the woofer would be on the side. I know 125Hz might be thin ice (100Hz or even lower, 80Hz would be thin ice for the midranges then), but ... would a 125Hz XO point work, without the need of the woofer facing directly the audience ? I don't want to go 4-way. Yet.
What do you think ?
Well, good thoughts. I could bring the XO point deeper, somewhere I read for subs a good healthy maximum of 80Hz without being able to tell where it is.. but that would be too deep for the 4 midranges, below ~120Hz energy begins to rise and I'd have to deal with box tuning for midrange too, e.g. started with a 80Hz xo point, while with 125Hz they're fine in a smallish closed box - simple. + the extra energy down in the 80Hz configuration.
I used to look A LOT onto the Visual Spectrum plugin of Foobar when playing music. It can be addictive, but there's one good use of it: I figured out the approximate peaks of the input signal and with 80Hz for midranges I couldn't keep pace with the woofer's immense power (with the same gain amp at same driver sensitivities) while this midrange block is better protected from big amplitudes when crossed at 125Hz. They still get some of the punch, but not that much anymore.
If I would go the 80Hz crossing way, I'd need another midwoofer between them, e.g. a 12" one and the complexity of the crossover would increase more, too.
At the moment the 21" woofer is meant to face forward, towards audience so 125Hz is not an issue. Maybe I leave it that way, I was afraid 125Hz would be high a bit (from bass location point of view) and you just confirmed. Many thanks for that extra confirmation.. I think I leave the design as is.
I used to look A LOT onto the Visual Spectrum plugin of Foobar when playing music. It can be addictive, but there's one good use of it: I figured out the approximate peaks of the input signal and with 80Hz for midranges I couldn't keep pace with the woofer's immense power (with the same gain amp at same driver sensitivities) while this midrange block is better protected from big amplitudes when crossed at 125Hz. They still get some of the punch, but not that much anymore.
If I would go the 80Hz crossing way, I'd need another midwoofer between them, e.g. a 12" one and the complexity of the crossover would increase more, too.
At the moment the 21" woofer is meant to face forward, towards audience so 125Hz is not an issue. Maybe I leave it that way, I was afraid 125Hz would be high a bit (from bass location point of view) and you just confirmed. Many thanks for that extra confirmation.. I think I leave the design as is.
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