You should have actually read them, and then is is a chance you may have learnt something.
Both of those are from two well regarded driver engineers and you simply dismiss them because you believe they are wrong. Neither was trying to sell anything there, just explaining about why the mass fallacy is generally wrong and the maths was very basic and direct - no slight of hand. Offer something substantive in response then, but until you do, I'll take the evidence and proof of experienced designers with respected drivers in the market over you. They're both good proven engineers and you are not.
Oh and there is plenty more out there to back it up from other creditable engineers and firms such as JBL. I linked those because they explain things simply and I thought you might get something out of them.
I own some of the JBL WG's and they don't work well under about 1k7, and no 18 is going to work well that high.
Unsubscribed because I can't be bothered with this train wreck any more.
Hi again AllenB
Yes I've been looking at a few different waveguides.
I would like if possible to use the JBL PT-B99HF-1 90*x90* waveguide.
I have also considered the much larger Dayton 12" waveguide, although it's hard for me to get this in the UK (would have to import it from the USA).
I would like to crossover somewhere between 1 & 2K Hz.
I have also been looking at different compression drivers, both 1" & 2".
I would like to use a 1" compression driver with a plastic element if possible.
Also I have noticed in the frequency plot for the Eminence Sigma Pro 18A-2 there is a hump in the response between 1 & 2K Hz.
The Precision Devices PD186 doesn't have this, and seems to be more flat in this area. It also has a lower resonance and more low end output by the looks of things. So I am thinking to maybe use the PD186.
I am going to check out a few more drivers as well.
I think at the end of the day the only way I can really choose a crossover point is to buy the 18", put it in it's enclosure, and listen to it for a while.
Cheers
Simon
Hi again AllenB
This one looks interesting.
'Faital Pro' - LTH 142
360mm x 240mm x 233mm deep
Horz 60 deg Vert 50 deg
1.4" Throat
Frequency down to 500 Hz
Recomended crossover @ 800 Hz
Cheers
Simon
Has anyone out there used one of these ?
Attachments
why not add a high efficiency 8" between the 18" and 1"? That would largely relax your requirements on both ends.
Look at the SRX738 as a practical example (albeit you don't need an horn loaded midrange)
the JBL 2118H or J would be a perfect candidate, and it can be found cheap on ebay any time.
Look at the SRX738 as a practical example (albeit you don't need an horn loaded midrange)
the JBL 2118H or J would be a perfect candidate, and it can be found cheap on ebay any time.
>>> why not add a high efficiency 8" between the 18" and 1"?
Like this...
Parts Express DIY Project
There is something fun about figuring a two way with an 18" woofer tho... i think it's an interesting and worthwhile pursuit.
Recently i was listening to an audition tape from a band and the speakers were Peavy. To me they looked like an 18" and a big horn driver on top behind a metal cage. The sound was really surprisingly good. It might have been a 15" driver but i did not measure. What surprised me most was how good the midrange was. For simplicity's sake, a two way makes sense... but finding the perfect pair of drivers is challenging. Selecting a 15" would make this less challenging, less fun and less bassy.
Other links...
http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?brand=&cat1=Pro Audio&cat2=PA Cabinets&model=PADH1849
http://www.planetdj.com/i--FX-1818
Like this...
Parts Express DIY Project
There is something fun about figuring a two way with an 18" woofer tho... i think it's an interesting and worthwhile pursuit.
Recently i was listening to an audition tape from a band and the speakers were Peavy. To me they looked like an 18" and a big horn driver on top behind a metal cage. The sound was really surprisingly good. It might have been a 15" driver but i did not measure. What surprised me most was how good the midrange was. For simplicity's sake, a two way makes sense... but finding the perfect pair of drivers is challenging. Selecting a 15" would make this less challenging, less fun and less bassy.
Other links...
http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?brand=&cat1=Pro Audio&cat2=PA Cabinets&model=PADH1849
http://www.planetdj.com/i--FX-1818
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Hi pos
Hope the DIY's going good.
The JBL waveguides have arrived here in the UK from JBL USA, and they should be delivered to Space Egg HQ tomorrow !
I might have jumped the gun a bit ordering them (the Faital Pro above looks interesting for low 800 Hz crossover, quite narrow angles though, Mmmm...?).
If they don't work out I guess I can always use them as funnels or something !
I'm sure I'll use them though.
Why don't I do a 3 way pos ?
Cos I'm a stuborn b*****d !!! that's why.
I like a bit of Mission Impossible stuff in my life, makes it interesting.
I have been thinking a bit about the crossover, and am thinking that I would like it to be hyper-minimal.
Perhaps using the natural roll-off on the 18" and just having a Zobel across it.
Just a high-pass for the HF driver and a high quality switched L-pad, a few dB's up and down (have got a nice heavy-duty rotary switch in the Space Egg parts store).
I did think also I might go 3 way, but I am determined to deal with any issues and make a 2 way work well.
Cheers
Simon...
Hi Godzilla
Hope the DIY's going good for you in The Big Apple
I was thinking you guys at the karate school might be able to get sponsorship from JBL.
They could do an advert with you guys chopping the indestructable moulded EON's !
I think it could be a challenge getting this right, but it's do-able.
I feel mating the 'perfect' pair of two drivers is the key.
Decent tuned enclosure and well aimed minimalist crossover as well.
Simple often works best, I think.
Cheers
Simon...
P.S. read post #121
So you realise the 18 falls apart up there and you won't want to cross too close to 1kHz. This is not unusual for an 18".
The waveguide you showed falls apart below 2kHz. You may need one unlike what most of us use.
Why not something like these...
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-228.pdf
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/294-706s.pdf
in something like this...
Eminence TI2000 2" Directivity/Radial Horn 60x40 4-Bolt
Problem is, it's getting expensive!
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-228.pdf
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/294-706s.pdf
in something like this...
Eminence TI2000 2" Directivity/Radial Horn 60x40 4-Bolt
Problem is, it's getting expensive!
I found a 18" two way speaker kit here:
Strassacker: Lautsprecher - Boxen - Selbstbau
Oddly it only seems to appear in the german part of the site. You need to click on 'K+T' and the kit is called eggo1.
Strassacker: Lautsprecher - Boxen - Selbstbau
Oddly it only seems to appear in the german part of the site. You need to click on 'K+T' and the kit is called eggo1.
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Something C O O L came out of this research . . . Later
" There is something fun about figuring a two way with an 18" woofer tho...
i think it's an interesting and worthwhile pursuit.
Recently i was listening to an audition tape from a band and the speakers were Peavy.
To me they looked like an 18" and a big horn driver on top behind a metal cage.
The sound was really surprisingly good.
It might have been a 15" driver but i did not measure.
What surprised me most was how good the midrange was.
For simplicity's sake, a two way makes sense... but finding the perfect pair of drivers is challenging.
Selecting a 15" would make this less challenging, less fun and less bassy."
Hi fellow plywood rippers !
I have been away for a while.
But have a bit more time for funky Forum jazz these days !
Thanks first of all to everyone who contributed nicely to the thread.
Talking over the various ideas DID in the end produce the speaker I wanted !
It did however MUTATE somewhat in the process.
Not as scarry as it was for Kurt Russell in 'The Thing' though.
Again thanks to EVERYONE, everything always adds up to the final result.
But I thought I'd quote Godzilla ^^ from the previous Page ...
... as he unknowingly at the time, kinda figured out what I actually did, a couple of years later.
(more or less)
I'll post some build photos, with description on what has happened so far, a bit at a time ...
... I did think about starting another Thread for the final speaker ...
... but since it was born as a direct result of all this great conversation ...
... I thought I may as well continue here, even if the Thread title is a little different to the outcome.
Blurb ... blurb ... blurb ...
As Godzilla speculated, a 2-way makes sense, but is challenging to find the perfect-couple of drivers.
He also said :-
" Selecting a 15" would make this less challenging, less fun and less bassy "
Well that COULD be the case, but in the end WASN'T.
It hasn't been LESS fun & it hasn't been LESS bassy either !
Guess what ?
I chose to use a 15" !
Those Peavys don't sound too bad do they !
Even nerdy knob twiddler Steve Albini likes a stalwart 15 for its favourable attributes.
Less bassy ?
NO WAY !
I just found the 15 with the perfect 'Q' specs. ...
... & got WAY WAY WAY more bass than I ever bargained for.
Plus of course dBs !!!
Give it a Watt, put on the Peltor X3A ear-defenders & prepare to hear that bone splintering 30 Hz Low-B0 ...
... Loud, very very very LOUD !!!
Si.
t.S.E.c
Oh ... nearly forgot ... the driver is an 'Eminence' Beta-15 !
Who wooda thunked it . . .
.
" There is something fun about figuring a two way with an 18" woofer tho...
i think it's an interesting and worthwhile pursuit.
Recently i was listening to an audition tape from a band and the speakers were Peavy.
To me they looked like an 18" and a big horn driver on top behind a metal cage.
The sound was really surprisingly good.
It might have been a 15" driver but i did not measure.
What surprised me most was how good the midrange was.
For simplicity's sake, a two way makes sense... but finding the perfect pair of drivers is challenging.
Selecting a 15" would make this less challenging, less fun and less bassy."
Hi fellow plywood rippers !
I have been away for a while.
But have a bit more time for funky Forum jazz these days !
Thanks first of all to everyone who contributed nicely to the thread.
Talking over the various ideas DID in the end produce the speaker I wanted !
It did however MUTATE somewhat in the process.
Not as scarry as it was for Kurt Russell in 'The Thing' though.
Again thanks to EVERYONE, everything always adds up to the final result.
But I thought I'd quote Godzilla ^^ from the previous Page ...
... as he unknowingly at the time, kinda figured out what I actually did, a couple of years later.
(more or less)
I'll post some build photos, with description on what has happened so far, a bit at a time ...
... I did think about starting another Thread for the final speaker ...
... but since it was born as a direct result of all this great conversation ...
... I thought I may as well continue here, even if the Thread title is a little different to the outcome.
Blurb ... blurb ... blurb ...
As Godzilla speculated, a 2-way makes sense, but is challenging to find the perfect-couple of drivers.
He also said :-
" Selecting a 15" would make this less challenging, less fun and less bassy "
Well that COULD be the case, but in the end WASN'T.
It hasn't been LESS fun & it hasn't been LESS bassy either !
Guess what ?
I chose to use a 15" !
Those Peavys don't sound too bad do they !
Even nerdy knob twiddler Steve Albini likes a stalwart 15 for its favourable attributes.
Less bassy ?
NO WAY !
I just found the 15 with the perfect 'Q' specs. ...
... & got WAY WAY WAY more bass than I ever bargained for.
Plus of course dBs !!!
Give it a Watt, put on the Peltor X3A ear-defenders & prepare to hear that bone splintering 30 Hz Low-B0 ...
... Loud, very very very LOUD !!!
Si.
t.S.E.c
Oh ... nearly forgot ... the driver is an 'Eminence' Beta-15 !
Who wooda thunked it . . .
.
Attachments
Last edited:
An Impressionistic Cell Snap Whilst Working On MIGHTY CAB !
.
Somehow the watercolour, or whatever it's called, feature on my cell, makes the workshop look tidier !
Kinda jumping ahead a bit ...
... but this is the baffle (ing?) bit of the new MIGHTY CAB !
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
.
Somehow the watercolour, or whatever it's called, feature on my cell, makes the workshop look tidier !
Kinda jumping ahead a bit ...
... but this is the baffle (ing?) bit of the new MIGHTY CAB !
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
Attachments
Last edited:
Scotty !
More messing about with MIGHTY CABS !
.
After all the umming & arring about different drivers & various design ideas ...
... once I had decided to take a pretty well aimed shot at the Eminence Beta-15 ...
... things progressed fairly quickly onto the final design & construction of the cab.
It's been a while since snapping construction photos & I don't recall which bits were made in what order ! ?
But at some point we had to make the hole.
I always like that part the most ...
... then you can check out your C L new driver properly !
Perhaps even give it a whirl with some nice '70s synth OST music by John Carpenter.
N I C E !
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
.
After all the umming & arring about different drivers & various design ideas ...
... once I had decided to take a pretty well aimed shot at the Eminence Beta-15 ...
... things progressed fairly quickly onto the final design & construction of the cab.
It's been a while since snapping construction photos & I don't recall which bits were made in what order ! ?
But at some point we had to make the hole.
I always like that part the most ...
... then you can check out your C
L new driver properly ! Perhaps even give it a whirl with some nice '70s synth OST music by John Carpenter.
N I C E !
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
Attachments
- Status
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