"Angleing rings"... worth the effort?
OK I know this is not the car audio forum, but I'm using various DIY components in my car setup and felt this would be the best place to ask since most car forums are full of morons. I use a pair of 6.5" Peerless midbass drivers in my 98 Corvette. I have MBquart .75" dome tweeters. They are crossoved over using a MBQuart passiveX over at approx 3.5khz or so with the bottom end electronically crossoed over at 90 with a Linkwitz/Riley alignment.
Also, it is painfully obvious that I'm not sitting in the direct line of the speaker's radiation pattern. If I do pull forward/sit back comparisions it is very obvious that alot of the sound is being "lost.
My plan is to make some angled mounts so I can more face the tweeters towards me as well as the midrange/midbass driver. Now this wont be anything dramatic, but I plan to use a .5 or .75" MDF sheet and very slightly angle cut it so not only would it push the speaker out closer away from the door itself, but also angle it slightly. Is this worth the effort?
OK I know this is not the car audio forum, but I'm using various DIY components in my car setup and felt this would be the best place to ask since most car forums are full of morons. I use a pair of 6.5" Peerless midbass drivers in my 98 Corvette. I have MBquart .75" dome tweeters. They are crossoved over using a MBQuart passiveX over at approx 3.5khz or so with the bottom end electronically crossoed over at 90 with a Linkwitz/Riley alignment.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
is a picture of the setup. But these speakers are facing right at one another so I'm probbly 35 to 45 degress off axis the passenger and at least 55-65 degrees off axis for driver speaker. Infact its even worse cause the center console in the car is very high, so it is literally like 2 pockets of sound. The matter is even more complicated when I listen with the door skins on. When I put the door skins/grilles on the sound seems to collapse and it sounds like crap. I attribute this to the 1" or so of space between the door skin/grille and the driver itself. I measured the output on my real time analyzer and the output is definately much smoother and less peaky and much more open sounding with the door skins off then on. 
Also, it is painfully obvious that I'm not sitting in the direct line of the speaker's radiation pattern. If I do pull forward/sit back comparisions it is very obvious that alot of the sound is being "lost.
My plan is to make some angled mounts so I can more face the tweeters towards me as well as the midrange/midbass driver. Now this wont be anything dramatic, but I plan to use a .5 or .75" MDF sheet and very slightly angle cut it so not only would it push the speaker out closer away from the door itself, but also angle it slightly. Is this worth the effort?
I did just that in my old Civic a few years ago. Helped raise the soundstage quite a bit and the MDF baffle eliminated a few resonances in the door. Angled the driver side speaker a bit higher than the passanger as well as used time allignment so as to cater to my needs. Screw the passengers. Aside from going with kickpanels, I think this would be your best option.
May I ask why you have the Peerless drivers highpassed at 90hz? Should be capable of going much lower, drawing soundstage to front of vehicle and lessening localization of subwoofer...
May I ask why you have the Peerless drivers highpassed at 90hz? Should be capable of going much lower, drawing soundstage to front of vehicle and lessening localization of subwoofer...
Hybrid fourdoor said:All bow down to the LS1.....old school technology...but damn it holds its own to the best.
A $20K 97 Corvette, plus a $5K supercharger is probably all the car I would ever need
I used to drive a 97 maxima i had modded up. however it kept blowing transmissions and I spent so much money on it. I said screw it, got ridda it and bought the Corvette. So far its bone stock and honestly I really have no intention of modding it. All that power and speed just gets you into accidents and tickets and trouble. I'd rather spend the $ on audio equipment.
BabaBooey said:
Very interesting indeed. I'll probbly start working on that today since I'm finally off and have some free time. Question though- whats the best way to make such a gradual cut on a sheet of MDF like that?
I have the peerless crossed over at 90 hz cause theres somethin in my door that rattles and I play alot of club/techno music and the bass content usually has enough power to overload the drivers when played very loud. I run about 125x2 to the front speakers. I am having some problems integrating my sub to the front speakers. It seems around x over frequency, theres cancellation and the woofer seems to be 90 degrees out of phase since reversing the subwoofer phase does nothing. I need either a time delay for the sub or a phase shifter.
Im starting this thread about my sub issue over in car audio, if somebody could add some input.
"Question though- whats the best way to make such a gradual cut on a sheet of MDF like that?"
Nadda cut, easier to sand it down to the desired angle.
"I have the peerless crossed over at 90 hz cause theres somethin in my door that rattles and I play alot of club/techno music and the bass content usually has enough power to overload the drivers when played very loud. I run about 125x2 to the front speakers."
They should easily handle that power down to 60-70hz. Turn your subwoofers off and give a listen to just the components at a volume you would usually listen to it. Creep down with the HP point and see if the door rattling is even caused by the speakers (I'd bet that it's the subs). If it does turn out to be the speakers, as I said before, the MDF baffle can help eliminated the resonances. I think your difficulty in 'integrating' the subwoofer into the system could be the high lowpass point.
Nadda cut, easier to sand it down to the desired angle.
"I have the peerless crossed over at 90 hz cause theres somethin in my door that rattles and I play alot of club/techno music and the bass content usually has enough power to overload the drivers when played very loud. I run about 125x2 to the front speakers."
They should easily handle that power down to 60-70hz. Turn your subwoofers off and give a listen to just the components at a volume you would usually listen to it. Creep down with the HP point and see if the door rattling is even caused by the speakers (I'd bet that it's the subs). If it does turn out to be the speakers, as I said before, the MDF baffle can help eliminated the resonances. I think your difficulty in 'integrating' the subwoofer into the system could be the high lowpass point.
The Rattling could be comming from the doors, it is a possibility
but I think the advice Baba just gave is very good advice. Have
you added any noise dampening yet? The Corvette's whole door
is made of Fiberglass and has metal side impact beams inside
plus all of the power window guts and I believe the Body Control
Module (BCM) is located in the doors. There are lots of parts to rattle there and things love to rattle in the 60-80hz range.
As for doing angle cuts on MDF sanding may be the best way if
you aren't taking about major angles.. You could cut the MDF on
a table saw but it would be very tricky to make the cut and could
be very dangerous. Some ruff paper on an orbital sander should
knock the MDF down in no time.
but I think the advice Baba just gave is very good advice. Have
you added any noise dampening yet? The Corvette's whole door
is made of Fiberglass and has metal side impact beams inside
plus all of the power window guts and I believe the Body Control
Module (BCM) is located in the doors. There are lots of parts to rattle there and things love to rattle in the 60-80hz range.
As for doing angle cuts on MDF sanding may be the best way if
you aren't taking about major angles.. You could cut the MDF on
a table saw but it would be very tricky to make the cut and could
be very dangerous. Some ruff paper on an orbital sander should
knock the MDF down in no time.
BabaBooey said:
Hmm maybe.... I have an audiocontrol EQX... goodthing I have some metal film resistors I can "make" a 70 hz plug for. As for the sanding thing, I thought about this but looks like thats the conesenses and thinking about it thats really the only option... I'm feeling very lazy today so I'll probbly do this another day.
Brett D. said:
Its the window thats ratting. I cant quite pinpiont it down I have the entire door opened up, tightened all that I could but it still rattles. and it also bangs around when I'm driving down the road. Damn GM vehicles....
anyway, the passenger side doesnt do it, but the driver one does... grrr.I think I found it...the tip in adjuster in the bottom front of the door was missing its rubber "condom" that holds it in place, so that let the entire window track just bang around. What I did was take some fuel injector hose, and then JB welded it on that fitting. Then let it dry and tightened it down. So far so good. I'm also applying felt to the back of all the friction fittings to stop rattling.
Another thing is I am in the process of making the angling rings. I cut a few 1/2" rings and then used a finishing sander with coarse paper and alot of patrience to hone them down. The midbasses I was only able to angle to about 10 degrees (wow and I thought I would never use trig!), but 10 degrees is better then 0 degrees. Especially looking at the differences above 1K between the 30 and 45 degree off axis freq response on the white paper!
The tweeter I was able to get to 30 or so degrees (estimated), so that should work really well and much better then what it was. The other advantage will be that the speaker is pushed further out towards the grille, so less resonance with the door panel. Pics will follow!
Another thing is I am in the process of making the angling rings. I cut a few 1/2" rings and then used a finishing sander with coarse paper and alot of patrience to hone them down. The midbasses I was only able to angle to about 10 degrees (wow and I thought I would never use trig!), but 10 degrees is better then 0 degrees. Especially looking at the differences above 1K between the 30 and 45 degree off axis freq response on the white paper!
The tweeter I was able to get to 30 or so degrees (estimated), so that should work really well and much better then what it was. The other advantage will be that the speaker is pushed further out towards the grille, so less resonance with the door panel. Pics will follow!
OK most of the major construction is now over. The tweeters sit at a 20 degree angle and the midbass driver sits at a 10 degree angle. I did some preliminary listeing tests, still with no door panel and no EQing. Initial impressions, definately more detail. Expanded the "sweet spot" considerably. I'm gonna probbly have to EQ the left different then the right. That tweeter on the driver side is overbearing, probbly cause of its proximity and the reflections off the steeringwheel/column. Of course these projects always take alot longer. Took a good part of a Sunday to even build the rings and take care of some other things...o well isnt that what DIY audio is about? Tweakin and tryin....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I fully appreciate that I know have someone else to share my car audio experience with, knocking out those ppl who think that Pioneer, Rockford Fos, etc. are the only "real" brand names. Kudos on the Peerless, how do they sound...it seems that you have already made the mounts...I would always recommend those if mounting on the side of the vehicle. Though, I have placed tweeters on the dash and have had exceptional soundstage results. Then again, your ears are probably a foot above the tweets in your scenario, good 'ol vettes.
Bose(o) said:I fully appreciate that I know have someone else to share my car audio experience with, knocking out those ppl who think that Pioneer, Rockford Fos, etc. are the only "real" brand names. Kudos on the Peerless, how do they sound...it seems that you have already made the mounts...I would always recommend those if mounting on the side of the vehicle. Though, I have placed tweeters on the dash and have had exceptional soundstage results. Then again, your ears are probably a foot above the tweets in your scenario, good 'ol vettes.
Yeah the tweeters arent too much below my ears. I'm also short and I have my seat adjusted very low in the car too.. that and i dont want to cut into dash or door parts that arent cheap to replace (like sails are, but I have none).
Peerless CSX 165 drivers were perfect. I actually replaced the MB quart midbasses I blew. they handle 130 or 150 watts (dont remember) which is what I needed. I havent blown them yet with a 125x2 amp and I pushed them hard. Best of all they were $40 a piece thru madisound. Rubber surround and a decently fat magnet too.
I think the midbasses are a tad colored (probbly from car function- the white paper of the driver is pretty much flat from 1k down all the way to 60 deg off axis), but thats OK I EQ it out pretty easily. ALso I'm not _too_ concerned with car audio, as long as it sounds 1/2 decent and loud with free distortion and good frequency response..
Bose(O),
I think most people serious into car audio drop names like
Focal, DD, Dynaudio, Xtant, A/D/S , MB-Quart etc..
Only people that "think" they know car audio talk about Sony
or Pioneer
Of course you don't have to have the brands I listed to have a
great sound system just leaf through a PE catalog and you can
pick numerous raw drivers that will work well in a car with the
right crossover implementation.
I think what Eric is undertaking is cool and all.. And I bet it will
sound fantastic.. But honestly I never turn the radio on in my C5
that's why I spent so much on the exhaust system (good music!)
No commercials LOL
I think most people serious into car audio drop names like
Focal, DD, Dynaudio, Xtant, A/D/S , MB-Quart etc..
Only people that "think" they know car audio talk about Sony
or Pioneer
Of course you don't have to have the brands I listed to have a
great sound system just leaf through a PE catalog and you can
pick numerous raw drivers that will work well in a car with the
right crossover implementation.
I think what Eric is undertaking is cool and all.. And I bet it will
sound fantastic.. But honestly I never turn the radio on in my C5
that's why I spent so much on the exhaust system (good music!)
No commercials LOL- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.