then:
ps.
I assume that midrange is 160-1600 Hz
A speaker inspired by a gun?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FaCV5qZajHU/TQPYhJRzSfI/AAAAAAAAAdk/9Akr25tcSqY/s1600/metal_storm1b_f.jpg
The Miller: Metal Storm
not really
but if You top priorities are details, transparency, dynamics - macro and micro - then no other midrange configuration even comes close, regardless of price
OTOH it is strictly audiophile solution - sweet spot is for one listener exclusively
this particular one has been built by diyaudio user THORSPAWN:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/164797-200-x-2-drivers-what-do.html
All those 2 inch drivers, very little air resistance, highly pistonic, very low excursion so voice coil always linear, low hysteresis, extremely controlled.
Isn't this thread a little difficult to pin down?
Surely the best midrange is the right one for the job which depends on desired dispersion pattern, power handling, desired volume level, listening distance, bass and treble drivers to marry to, amplification passive or active application?
Hard to judge the drive units ultimate quality on the implementation in someone's design.
Good paper cones are usually a safe bet if not the ultimate resolution.
ATC softdome very nice but you couldn't use it for dipole.
Heil Air motion Transformer mid used by Adam audio very nice although I didn't personally get on with the speakers as a whole, but maybe in the right room......
Trouble is I'm not sure if such a thing exists for diy?
Seas excel magnesium for dipoles.
I guess this is a bit of fun but perhaps giving some hackneyed old advice (from a non expert) maybe but isn't a good driver in the best hands going to perform better than a cost no object unit in the hands of someone who for instance has to ask other people what the best driver would be?
In an extreme example listen to the Linkwitz Pluto, beautiful treble from a dirt cheap two inch "fullrange" because it is so carefully integrated with the mid cone/dome drive unit.
Isn't this thread a little difficult to pin down?
Surely the best midrange is the right one for the job which depends on desired dispersion pattern, power handling, desired volume level, listening distance, bass and treble drivers to marry to, amplification passive or active application?
Hard to judge the drive units ultimate quality on the implementation in someone's design.
Good paper cones are usually a safe bet if not the ultimate resolution.
ATC softdome very nice but you couldn't use it for dipole.
Heil Air motion Transformer mid used by Adam audio very nice although I didn't personally get on with the speakers as a whole, but maybe in the right room......
Trouble is I'm not sure if such a thing exists for diy?
Seas excel magnesium for dipoles.
I guess this is a bit of fun but perhaps giving some hackneyed old advice (from a non expert) maybe but isn't a good driver in the best hands going to perform better than a cost no object unit in the hands of someone who for instance has to ask other people what the best driver would be?
In an extreme example listen to the Linkwitz Pluto, beautiful treble from a dirt cheap two inch "fullrange" because it is so carefully integrated with the mid cone/dome drive unit.
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What is best midrange for nearfield listening and low volume listening.
Micro-macro details etc..
Wonder how B&G RD-75, neo10,lft8, 12mu,other cones mids, Atc Dome, beyma tpl-150 would compare for nearfield listening.
i currently have the SS illum 12mu so i wonder if i should go up a notch for a better midrange.. but i want a big step up for not much more money..
Neo10 is competively priced but i wonder for nearfield what is best..
Micro-macro details etc..
Wonder how B&G RD-75, neo10,lft8, 12mu,other cones mids, Atc Dome, beyma tpl-150 would compare for nearfield listening.
i currently have the SS illum 12mu so i wonder if i should go up a notch for a better midrange.. but i want a big step up for not much more money..
Neo10 is competively priced but i wonder for nearfield what is best..
B&G RD-75's are absolutely wonderful for near-field. I use them as dipoles from 200 - 2 kHz, and my listening distance is only 1.2 meters. They are so incredibly detailed that you hear everything without turning up the volume. Typically I listen at 70-75 dB average, which is faily soft.
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Now after this post anybody would like to make a list of the best in order
I understand that some a best in certain bandpass range than others but still the midrange is the midrange..
I actually have two illuminator 12mu waiting to be use in my nearfield (flat from 50hz to 40hz project) to be crossed with a raal..
I wonder would a neo8 be better match than the 12mu for the raal?
or neo10 over neo8 and 12mu??
that's mainly my question..
Also for you anybody can confirm that the raal is really worth it if use over 3-4khz against domes or other ribbons..
The goal is the best nearfield system for reasonable cost..
I was going Usher 8545 - 12mu - raal 70-20XR
I know i could even drop the 12mu but I wonder if the Usher + Raal might give my some dispersion michmatch or other SQ problem.??.
I'm thinking maybe Usher8545 - neo8 - raal or Usher8545 - neo10 - raal..
Also i'm thinking of maybe crossing a little higher and dropping the raal for a fountek neox 1,2 or LCY or other tweeter to save money and buy myself a synthetizer instead.
this is a question only for those who have heard and tested the new high-end midrange and high-end tweeters.
Any opinions by the experts on all this..
.. I need to decide fast... please help me.
CSD, THD, Dispersion of 12mu seems very good and match the raal but i wonder about
speed and also high xmax of the driver.. some says this is bad for a midrange..
Also would usher be fast enough to be crossed to a neo10-neo8?
I'm investing a lot in this setup because i'm producing/mixing/mastering
so details and precision (even a low volume) is very important for me.
I understand that some a best in certain bandpass range than others but still the midrange is the midrange..
I actually have two illuminator 12mu waiting to be use in my nearfield (flat from 50hz to 40hz project) to be crossed with a raal..
I wonder would a neo8 be better match than the 12mu for the raal?
or neo10 over neo8 and 12mu??
that's mainly my question..
Also for you anybody can confirm that the raal is really worth it if use over 3-4khz against domes or other ribbons..
The goal is the best nearfield system for reasonable cost..
I was going Usher 8545 - 12mu - raal 70-20XR
I know i could even drop the 12mu but I wonder if the Usher + Raal might give my some dispersion michmatch or other SQ problem.??.
I'm thinking maybe Usher8545 - neo8 - raal or Usher8545 - neo10 - raal..
Also i'm thinking of maybe crossing a little higher and dropping the raal for a fountek neox 1,2 or LCY or other tweeter to save money and buy myself a synthetizer instead
. this is a question only for those who have heard and tested the new high-end midrange and high-end tweeters.
Any opinions by the experts on all this..
.. I need to decide fast... please help me.
CSD, THD, Dispersion of 12mu seems very good and match the raal but i wonder about
speed and also high xmax of the driver.. some says this is bad for a midrange..
Also would usher be fast enough to be crossed to a neo10-neo8?
I'm investing a lot in this setup because i'm producing/mixing/mastering
so details and precision (even a low volume) is very important for me.
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Looking for best midrange driver for 3-way diy project
it must be detailed and transparent
now i own Troelы Gravesen Cyclop
and around other speakers that i listend it has the best midrange
but
the idea for new project
2 x h1411 seas in two different TL
the midrange in spherical cab or like midrange cab in B&W diamond.
and the twitter is HIQUPHON OWII in cab like B&W diamond too.
but i cant decide which midrange to use
the m15ch002 like in mine current setup or something else
maybe the ATC sm75-150?
or even accuton C90-6-078
any suggestions are welcomed
The Quad ESL 57 makes for an excellent midrange speaker.
I would say that there are no big steps up from something like the 12MU. As per Zaphs own measurements this driver is one of the best performing standard hifi quality mid-range drive units out there. Sure it has a small peak in the 2nd harmonic at an unfortunate frequency, but the rest of it is right on the money.
From the perspective of designing a near-field design though, having close driver to driver spacing would seem to pose a distinct advantage. Small height changes in the near-field will obviously result in larger changes in the path distance between the mid and tweet to your ears, then it would normally do in the far field, affecting the driver integration in a larger way.
I'd rather pick a smaller driver over a larger one and keep the crossover reasonably low and steep. In other words keep the midrange 5" or smaller, preferably smaller and 4th order acoustic filters would probably be better suited.
Compared to the 12MU if you want a stiff cone, you've got the usual suspects and the 5" ceramic accutons, the C90-6-079 for example.
HTGuide Forum - View Single Post - Ardent Speaker Camp
At the end of the day though the 12MU is an excellent driver and the implementation is also extremely important.
From the perspective of designing a near-field design though, having close driver to driver spacing would seem to pose a distinct advantage. Small height changes in the near-field will obviously result in larger changes in the path distance between the mid and tweet to your ears, then it would normally do in the far field, affecting the driver integration in a larger way.
I'd rather pick a smaller driver over a larger one and keep the crossover reasonably low and steep. In other words keep the midrange 5" or smaller, preferably smaller and 4th order acoustic filters would probably be better suited.
Compared to the 12MU if you want a stiff cone, you've got the usual suspects and the 5" ceramic accutons, the C90-6-079 for example.
HTGuide Forum - View Single Post - Ardent Speaker Camp
At the end of the day though the 12MU is an excellent driver and the implementation is also extremely important.
good 5-element thx a lot for helping.. What do you think is the cause of the nasty distortion bump at 1khz.. i wonder if it's for all 12mu
So do you think a 4" 12mu cross with raal 70-20XR-AM will do fine for nearfield? like 1.3 meter distance..
I thought about doing a folded transmission line for the 12mu do you think it would help to create a standalone small bookshelf?
I really wonder how low i can go with the 12mu.. with and without a transmission line.. most say it fare better crossed at like 150-200hz but i wonder if i cross low with the raal at like 2khz
maybe the 12mu would be good enough to do 60-70hz and transmission line go down to 50hz... but I guess i'm dreaming..
I will still need a 5" or 7" woofer.
Anybody have measured the tang-bang 5" subwoofer? Wonder what to use between this one and usher 8545.. (usher cost more and take more space, but low-end distortion level is incredible on the 8545)
So do you think a 4" 12mu cross with raal 70-20XR-AM will do fine for nearfield? like 1.3 meter distance..
I thought about doing a folded transmission line for the 12mu do you think it would help to create a standalone small bookshelf?
I really wonder how low i can go with the 12mu.. with and without a transmission line.. most say it fare better crossed at like 150-200hz but i wonder if i cross low with the raal at like 2khz
maybe the 12mu would be good enough to do 60-70hz and transmission line go down to 50hz... but I guess i'm dreaming..
I will still need a 5" or 7" woofer.
Anybody have measured the tang-bang 5" subwoofer? Wonder what to use between this one and usher 8545.. (usher cost more and take more space, but low-end distortion level is incredible on the 8545)
Based off of a description given by the designer of the Satori driver from SB acoustics, it's likely that it could be a resonance between the cone and the surround. You can see it's presence in the impedance plot at the same frequency too. This kind of thing isn't unique to the 12MU and shows up in a lot of soft coned drivers from scan speak, some are worse then others though.
Its clear that the excellent 8545 has better performance through the low midrange then the 12MU, although this will be heavily level dependent. Personally I'd be looking at a three way with xovers around 400Hz and 2-3kHz. I don't know how well the Raal will cope with a 2kHz xover. I know that lots of people have mentioned that the Raal ribbons sound better when crossed over higher then the manufacturer recommends as the lowest xover point, so perhaps a good quality dome might be more appropriate. Are DIYers now able to buy the 70-20? I thought it was strictly OEM.
A two way with the 12MU is certainly feasible, but as this is supposed to be 'cost no object', it is certainly going to be a compromise if you go that route.
Its clear that the excellent 8545 has better performance through the low midrange then the 12MU, although this will be heavily level dependent. Personally I'd be looking at a three way with xovers around 400Hz and 2-3kHz. I don't know how well the Raal will cope with a 2kHz xover. I know that lots of people have mentioned that the Raal ribbons sound better when crossed over higher then the manufacturer recommends as the lowest xover point, so perhaps a good quality dome might be more appropriate. Are DIYers now able to buy the 70-20? I thought it was strictly OEM.
A two way with the 12MU is certainly feasible, but as this is supposed to be 'cost no object', it is certainly going to be a compromise if you go that route.
I was think of going raal + 12mu + transmission line for now and add the usher later, when money will flow.. (maybe remove the transmission line at that point and put the 12mu in closed box), just the raal is so pricey that i might have to wait for the usher..
at least I have a nice upgrade path.. just add a box with the usher, change crossovers settings and that's it..
anyway i live in an appartment so bass will be cut at like 50hz or so
gonna use Minidsp 2x8 for crossover.
still wonder if -> usher + neo10 + raal at the end will be my destination might buy a 2 neo10 to compare with the 12mu at some point and sell the one that I like less
at least I have a nice upgrade path.. just add a box with the usher, change crossovers settings and that's it..
anyway i live in an appartment so bass will be cut at like 50hz or so
gonna use Minidsp 2x8 for crossover.
still wonder if -> usher + neo10 + raal at the end will be my destination
might buy a 2 neo10 to compare with the 12mu at some point and sell the one that I like less