I need a new loudspeaker! Medium/small room, 300b SET amplifier. I was thinking in terms of a slim floorstander or maybe a 2-way on stands. I'm still considering a fullranger like Jordan JX92 or Mark Audio 12. But I'm equally open to a 2-way.
I don't have the software or implements to construct crossovers, so would need a proven design, or at least somebody that could calculate values for me. I see many good reviews of Scanspeak units like 15W8530K00, 18W8531 and 8545 and there are other similar ones in the range.
Can somebody recommend some good designs with these Scanspeak mid/bass drivers - 6" to 8"? Or any other high end DIY projects that would give me similarly good performance? I don't listen loud, and mostly to classical and jazz. High volumes not necessary at all. Detail and tonal accuracy and beauty is very important.
Very grateful for your help here!
Andy
I don't have the software or implements to construct crossovers, so would need a proven design, or at least somebody that could calculate values for me. I see many good reviews of Scanspeak units like 15W8530K00, 18W8531 and 8545 and there are other similar ones in the range.
Can somebody recommend some good designs with these Scanspeak mid/bass drivers - 6" to 8"? Or any other high end DIY projects that would give me similarly good performance? I don't listen loud, and mostly to classical and jazz. High volumes not necessary at all. Detail and tonal accuracy and beauty is very important.
Very grateful for your help here!
Andy
Hello -
Looks like a choice here between two good options -
15W8530K00 - we have the Ellam and Zaph ZD5 (which he described in 2006 as the best speaker he had designed)
18W8531G00 - SP98-09 plus HTGuide Forum - The Spassvogel MT project design and progress (ScanSpeak 6600 & 18W/8531) plus Zaph|Audio - ZRT - Revelator Tower
Both the same price. These all seem well regarded and tested designs.
Can anyone give me any further guidance on these options?
Andy
Looks like a choice here between two good options -
15W8530K00 - we have the Ellam and Zaph ZD5 (which he described in 2006 as the best speaker he had designed)
18W8531G00 - SP98-09 plus HTGuide Forum - The Spassvogel MT project design and progress (ScanSpeak 6600 & 18W/8531) plus Zaph|Audio - ZRT - Revelator Tower
Both the same price. These all seem well regarded and tested designs.
Can anyone give me any further guidance on these options?
Andy
It'll probably come down to how important the low end is to you... and 8" driver will respond lower but require a larger box, a 6" will probably behave slightly better at the high end (around the xover point). & I'd check out the distortion profiles on Zaph's site (all SS drivers seem to be very good in this respect though...)
I have a derivative of Zaph's ZD5 and I enjoy it very much. However he does not recommend it for tube amps because of it's low sensitivity. Also his design has raising impedence; so you would need to add your own conjugate notch for impedance flattening.
His ZRT speaker use the 18W Revelator and the AirCirc tweeter which is great. He says this design should work well with tube amps.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZRT.html
His ZRT speaker use the 18W Revelator and the AirCirc tweeter which is great. He says this design should work well with tube amps.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZRT.html
Hi Andy,
A 300B set amplifier is not appropriate for these scan-speak drivers, best bass extension and low sensitivity (82dB/86dB)
For your 300B set a high efficiency loudspeaker is required (>90dB) and it cannot be slim.
Read carefully choices
Perhaps a SEAS nextel design could work better because they need less power to deliver their best ?
Troëls has tested these "slim" SEAS design with his 8W amplifier.
Acapella NEXTSEAS W22NY001 +
CNO 2.
A 300B set amplifier is not appropriate for these scan-speak drivers, best bass extension and low sensitivity (82dB/86dB)
For your 300B set a high efficiency loudspeaker is required (>90dB) and it cannot be slim.
Read carefully choices
Perhaps a SEAS nextel design could work better because they need less power to deliver their best ?
Troëls has tested these "slim" SEAS design with his 8W amplifier.
Acapella NEXTSEAS W22NY001 +
CNO 2.
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Hi again,
To answer the last posts. The lower end isn't too important. Actually I was a professional jazz bass player, and as they say "the cobblers children have no shoes". The bottom note E on the bass is 40hz so as long as that is not too far down like -3db or even -6db I'm fine. Not interested in anything under 40hz.
As regards power, I have a quite small room and I don't listen loud. So I'm happy with less power. I can appreciate comments on amplifier/speaker match for "normal circumstances" since that's how we design of course. But in my case, like I say, I'm happy with lower volumes.
Having said that, there does seem to be about 4db difference between the 8530 and 8531 or 8545 in sensitivity. In fact the 8545 is the most sensitive. Should I in fact just use the 8545? I know it's an older design - are newer designs better sounding? the 8545 seems still in production, though for how long I don't know.
Andy
To answer the last posts. The lower end isn't too important. Actually I was a professional jazz bass player, and as they say "the cobblers children have no shoes". The bottom note E on the bass is 40hz so as long as that is not too far down like -3db or even -6db I'm fine. Not interested in anything under 40hz.
As regards power, I have a quite small room and I don't listen loud. So I'm happy with less power. I can appreciate comments on amplifier/speaker match for "normal circumstances" since that's how we design of course. But in my case, like I say, I'm happy with lower volumes.
Having said that, there does seem to be about 4db difference between the 8530 and 8531 or 8545 in sensitivity. In fact the 8545 is the most sensitive. Should I in fact just use the 8545? I know it's an older design - are newer designs better sounding? the 8545 seems still in production, though for how long I don't know.
Andy
Hi 
"the cobblers children have no shoes"
I like this proverb.
Newer scanspeak designs iare better sounding in the midrange.
Don't forget we need power to reproduce peak signals. If the mean power is 1W, we could have 15W peak power. For the bass note, the power needed is high.
Frankly, you like bass, without hesitation 18W/8531G00 is the driver for you.
Have Fun.
"the cobblers children have no shoes"
I like this proverb.
Newer scanspeak designs iare better sounding in the midrange.
Don't forget we need power to reproduce peak signals. If the mean power is 1W, we could have 15W peak power. For the bass note, the power needed is high.
Frankly, you like bass, without hesitation 18W/8531G00 is the driver for you.
Have Fun.
Hi Andy
I have the 18W/8531. Its a very well made driver with a great tight bass sound. It wont go down to 40Hz easily unless the enclosure is pretty big and well designed (unlike mine) so standmount is out of the question.
The drivers are low sensitivity and wont be driven by your SET amp (trust me I have a SET amp) and its not necessarily about volume levels. The scan-speaks really like power and they wont sound good, not being driven hard (even at low volume levels). I hope that makes sense?
I'm currently building a fonken floorstander with an FE127E - a much better match for a 300B SET and you'll save $$$.
If you really want the scan-speaks look at buying/building a gainclone as they seem to match fairly well.
Cheers
Chris
I have the 18W/8531. Its a very well made driver with a great tight bass sound. It wont go down to 40Hz easily unless the enclosure is pretty big and well designed (unlike mine) so standmount is out of the question.
The drivers are low sensitivity and wont be driven by your SET amp (trust me I have a SET amp) and its not necessarily about volume levels. The scan-speaks really like power and they wont sound good, not being driven hard (even at low volume levels). I hope that makes sense?
I'm currently building a fonken floorstander with an FE127E - a much better match for a 300B SET and you'll save $$$.
If you really want the scan-speaks look at buying/building a gainclone as they seem to match fairly well.
Cheers
Chris
Hi Chris,
That's interesting to know. The 300b SET stays! So your opinion is that I need more sensitivity. I did try my SET into a pair of Sonus Faber 2-way standmounts and it was really marginal even in a small room. On the other hand a Jordan JX92 fullrange was fine. Without the crossover losses maybe the fullrangers score here.
Hmmmm. Some thinking to do here. Is a 300b SET impossible?
Andy
That's interesting to know. The 300b SET stays! So your opinion is that I need more sensitivity. I did try my SET into a pair of Sonus Faber 2-way standmounts and it was really marginal even in a small room. On the other hand a Jordan JX92 fullrange was fine. Without the crossover losses maybe the fullrangers score here.
Hmmmm. Some thinking to do here. Is a 300b SET impossible?
Andy
Hi Andy
Not at all impossible just not the best option. Even with the volume turned up on mine (I get about 12W out of my SET) its loud enough but the sound is 'distant'.
I think the full rangers will sound much better with your setup but I (personally and others will disagree) think that the scan-speaks will be better suited to large orchestral type pieces but the full rangers will win on smaller, chamber type pieces.
Best to have both in my opinion
The other guys will probably be best to advise on design features to make the most of the sensitivity of the SS's. I saw a transmission line enclosure somewhere that looked nice.
What tweeter you planning on using?
Cheers
Chris
Not at all impossible just not the best option. Even with the volume turned up on mine (I get about 12W out of my SET) its loud enough but the sound is 'distant'.
I think the full rangers will sound much better with your setup but I (personally and others will disagree) think that the scan-speaks will be better suited to large orchestral type pieces but the full rangers will win on smaller, chamber type pieces.
Best to have both in my opinion
The other guys will probably be best to advise on design features to make the most of the sensitivity of the SS's. I saw a transmission line enclosure somewhere that looked nice.
What tweeter you planning on using?
Cheers
Chris
as an alternative, consider the Peerless 830883 - considerably cheaper than SS, more efficient, a good distortion profile (see Zaph's tests), and is good in a box ~22L.
Jay Kim had a couple of designs using it, I very nearly built a version using a SEAS tweeter (but other events intervened...). That would be one of the best value for money/quality combos around. I know Jay's site is down now, but he may still be around to give the details... I know I've got a printout somewhere...
(But being a bass player - I'd go for a 2.5 way system - a great way to get the feel of the solidity of the double bass...)
Jay Kim had a couple of designs using it, I very nearly built a version using a SEAS tweeter (but other events intervened...). That would be one of the best value for money/quality combos around. I know Jay's site is down now, but he may still be around to give the details... I know I've got a printout somewhere...
(But being a bass player - I'd go for a 2.5 way system - a great way to get the feel of the solidity of the double bass...)
Having used the 5.5" and 6.5" revelators, I couldn't agree more. Probably the best there is for a 2-way.
I think the 5.5" revelator will limit your power handling too much.
|Hi David and Pete,
I'll look at the Peerless - thanks for that.
Regarding the 8350 and the 8531, I appreciate the better power handling of the 8531 - that's a positive factor. But before I eliminate the 8530, can you give me an idea of what this unit does BETTER than the 8531? Though I'm a bass player, I actually don't listen much to the bass - when I was playing I listened to the rest of the band or orchestra. My priorities are detail and tone - tone is particularly important, to hear acoustic instruments sounding as lifelike as possible. So should I still consider the 8530 on the basis of superior tone quality and mids? Or is the 8531 equally good here?
Andy
I'll look at the Peerless - thanks for that.
Regarding the 8350 and the 8531, I appreciate the better power handling of the 8531 - that's a positive factor. But before I eliminate the 8530, can you give me an idea of what this unit does BETTER than the 8531? Though I'm a bass player, I actually don't listen much to the bass - when I was playing I listened to the rest of the band or orchestra. My priorities are detail and tone - tone is particularly important, to hear acoustic instruments sounding as lifelike as possible. So should I still consider the 8530 on the basis of superior tone quality and mids? Or is the 8531 equally good here?
Andy
18w16545K00 in WTW (not 2.5way) would do the job(if you are not keen on bass and overal spl) you are asking. i have used 4x 18w24w545-00 in WWTWW configuration with quite good undiscorted spl with 8w 300B SE. but still scan speaks (especialy ilumintators or partialy revelators) need quite a power to pum in to "come alive"
for SET and your preferencies I would choose healthy tweeter and xover point around 1-4-1.6khz
18w1631g00 in WTW would work also with xover point around 16-2khz
sonicaly I would choose black coated kevlar versions of scan speaks with SET.
for SET and your preferencies I would choose healthy tweeter and xover point around 1-4-1.6khz
18w1631g00 in WTW would work also with xover point around 16-2khz
sonicaly I would choose black coated kevlar versions of scan speaks with SET.
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