I have a pair of these speakers. I originally bought them as a portable, "better" music source during vacations, etc. They fit neatly into a cardboard mailing tube which avoids damage at the bottom of a suitcase.
As to the sound... It is a bit of a disappointment, frankly. Despite the solid build, there is an unmissable "computer speaker" sound, like deep but underdamped bass being wrung out with a high Q tuning. Something artificial about the midrange too, like you get with excessive DSP or equalization. Curious what other members think? I have been unwilling to mess with a $3K toy so far but now (three years post-purchase) I am thinking of pulling out some leads from the output of the amps to run an external two-way speaker to see if the fault lies with the electronics or the mechanical tuning. Why use a class-D amp for the tweeter anyways? How much power can a 3/4" unit handle -- 3W?
I had a few conversations many years ago with Manny Lacarrubba who is the inventor of the lens and it's applications for cars... and due to the non compete with B&O, it didn't go anywhere..
But after years of installing and listening... nothing has.. and I mean nothing has worked better then a traditional 2 or 3 way placed optimally, lessening tactile energy transfer... you really need to go to a MECA finals and listen to these cars before over complicating things
But after years of installing and listening... nothing has.. and I mean nothing has worked better then a traditional 2 or 3 way placed optimally, lessening tactile energy transfer... you really need to go to a MECA finals and listen to these cars before over complicating things
Some 6 months ago a friend of mine got a new German car. I dontknow if you guys get it in the US - it is called the Audi A8. At first I was looking for the speakers but up on the dash poped up a pair of wave guide tweeters that look very similar to what is being shown here. On top of the tweeter was written Bang and Olufsen.
When my sister was looking for a compact 5.1 system for her TV we auditioned the Mirage Nanosats. The sound did not impress and she finally settled for the KEF KHT3005. The Nanosat looked very simlar to these Spherex speakers.
I agree, In larger cars a 8" 3 way can fit in the door in smaller cars a 6" 2 way in the front door works well to create a nice soundstage. If you are really getting into car audio do checkout what the guys on diymobileaudio are doing.
That's unfortunate to hear. I listened to the top of the line from B&O in Portland a few years ago, and was impressed. It reminded me a bit of my Summas. The treble seems a bit "wonky" at first, because we're not accustomed to constant directivity. Once your ears adjust, it's difficult to go back.
OTOH, their top of the line speaker is much less compromised than the lower models, because it uses a larger waveguide and a larger enclosure.
And how do you have them installed in your room? I had a hell of a time coming up with a good location for my Summas, since constant directivity loudspeakers are sensitive to early reflections. (In a conventional loudspeaker the treble "beams" forward, so preventing reflections can be as simple as rotating the loudspeaker. In a CD loudspeaker, the off-axis response is quite similar to the on-axis response, so pulling the speakers away from the walls makes a noticeable improvement.)
In other words, do you have your speakers set up as far from the walls as is practical?
I do not think positioning will change my particular complaint (the speaker has switches in the back for wall-corner-free space positioning, BTW). It just seems to me when the size of a speaker gets reduced this much and yet the designer is still trying to get a reasonable amount of bass out of it, something nasty happens. Maybe a variety of middle frequencies reverberate inside or some bass bump is introduced which muddies the midrange (all guesses, no real idea what it is...).
I recently bought a pair of Beolab 4000s, which are slightly larger and there is none of this problem.
It is interesting: perhaps because these speakers are laughably expensive ($3-4K/pair), there are almost no reviews on the internet.
I recently bought a pair of Beolab 4000s, which are slightly larger and there is none of this problem.
It is interesting: perhaps because these speakers are laughably expensive ($3-4K/pair), there are almost no reviews on the internet.
Acoustic Lens
An AES paper [1] is available that discloses details of the "lens" design used in the Beolab3. While it exhibits the behavior of a divergent acoustic lens, it reflects acoustic energy, it does not refract it. When signal wavelength becomes comparable to, or larger than its dimensions, the device loses its divergent properties; i.e., it becomes "transparent" to a low frequency signal.
Regards,
WHG
Ref.: [1]
File: AESP-2392
Title: 360 Degree Dispersion Frequency Invariant Acoustic Transduction System
Author(1): Ferralli, Michael W.
Author(2): Moulton, David
Affiliation: Phase Coherent Audio, Inc.,Girard, PA
Publication: AES-P No. 2392, Cnv. 81 (Nov-1986)
URL: AES E-Library: 360 Degree Dispersion Frequency Invariant Acoustic Transduction System
Abstract1): An acoustic transduction system has been designed which couples the sound field of two transducers in phase and produces a resultant acoustic radiation pattern which has a full 360 degree horizontal by 90+ degree vertical frequency invariant beam-width. The system incorporates an acoustic lens, rather than a phased array or electronic technique, to couple the sound fields and produce the wide dispersion.
Abstract2): The system is used in a loudspeaker to achieve a 360 degree sound field which is devoid of high frequency beam collapse, and combing.
An AES paper [1] is available that discloses details of the "lens" design used in the Beolab3. While it exhibits the behavior of a divergent acoustic lens, it reflects acoustic energy, it does not refract it. When signal wavelength becomes comparable to, or larger than its dimensions, the device loses its divergent properties; i.e., it becomes "transparent" to a low frequency signal.
Regards,
WHG
Ref.: [1]
File: AESP-2392
Title: 360 Degree Dispersion Frequency Invariant Acoustic Transduction System
Author(1): Ferralli, Michael W.
Author(2): Moulton, David
Affiliation: Phase Coherent Audio, Inc.,Girard, PA
Publication: AES-P No. 2392, Cnv. 81 (Nov-1986)
URL: AES E-Library: 360 Degree Dispersion Frequency Invariant Acoustic Transduction System
Abstract
1): An acoustic transduction system has been designed which couples the sound field of two transducers in phase and produces a resultant acoustic radiation pattern which has a full 360 degree horizontal by 90+ degree vertical frequency invariant beam-width. The system incorporates an acoustic lens, rather than a phased array or electronic technique, to couple the sound fields and produce the wide dispersion.Abstract
2): The system is used in a loudspeaker to achieve a 360 degree sound field which is devoid of high frequency beam collapse, and combing."Lens" Ref. Correct
Sorry! Related, but wrong reference given. Here is the correct one:
File: AESP-5648
Title: Driver Directivity Control by Sound Redistribution
Author(1): Pedersen, Jan Abildgaard
Author(2): Munch, Gert
Affiliation: Acoustics Research, Bang & Olufsen, Struer, Denmark
Publication: AES-P No. 5648, Cnv. 113 (Oct-2002)
URL: AES E-Library: Driver Directivity Control by Sound Redistribution
Abstract1): The directivity of a single loudspeaker driver is controlled by adding an acoustic reflector to an ordinary driver. The driver radiates upwards and the sound is redistributed by being reflected off the acoustic reflector. The shape of the acoustic reflector is non-trivial and yields an interesting and useful directivity both in the vertical and horizontal plane. 2D FEM simulations and 3D BEM simulations are compared to free field measurements performed on a loudspeaker using the acoustic reflector.
Abstract2): The resulting directivity is related to results of previously reported psychoacoustic experiments.
Sorry! Related, but wrong reference given. Here is the correct one:
File: AESP-5648
Title: Driver Directivity Control by Sound Redistribution
Author(1): Pedersen, Jan Abildgaard
Author(2): Munch, Gert
Affiliation: Acoustics Research, Bang & Olufsen, Struer, Denmark
Publication: AES-P No. 5648, Cnv. 113 (Oct-2002)
URL: AES E-Library: Driver Directivity Control by Sound Redistribution
Abstract
1): The directivity of a single loudspeaker driver is controlled by adding an acoustic reflector to an ordinary driver. The driver radiates upwards and the sound is redistributed by being reflected off the acoustic reflector. The shape of the acoustic reflector is non-trivial and yields an interesting and useful directivity both in the vertical and horizontal plane. 2D FEM simulations and 3D BEM simulations are compared to free field measurements performed on a loudspeaker using the acoustic reflector.Abstract
2): The resulting directivity is related to results of previously reported psychoacoustic experiments.
waveguides (HLCDs) are outstanding in a car, but the trick to using them is that for them to sound right, you have to use 1/3 octave EQs on each horn, and tune them with an RTA. Otherwise they are far too difficult to control, particularly in such an adverse environment. I've worked with horns in cars before, and it's quite a bit of work.
I know that Paterick has been doing the SOTA car audio horn thing for quite a few years and, in my opinion, has had some of the best car audo I've ever heard. His mini-unity horns that I heard a year ago in his Honda were stunning!
Best Regards,
TerryO
As I just noticed, I can't even spell.
Let's just call him Patrick from now on!
Best Regards,
TerryO
This project nearly cost me my right thumb. The parts are very small and delicate, and while working with my powertools I cut about 90% of the way through my right thumb.
Since I write code for a living, that definitely put a damper on my audio psychosis.
But HEY, I'm back, and I even have a forum. (forum.audiopsychosis.com)
I have been thinking about the Sausalito lens. I am betting that the dimensions of the lens are based on the lower limit of the device. For instance, the lens in the Beolab 5 is 19.3 across. The crossover point is 500hz. 19.3" is equivalent to 700hz. So I'm guessing that the device works to 700hz, but they're crossing over a bit below it's cutoff, since the response would like be falling. (IE, that dropoff will make the crossover simpler.)
I don't think I will be cloning the small beolab speakers - kinda scared of my power tools nowadays.
But I think the lens could be useful for a lot of situations. For instance, when I auditioned the Beolab 5 I found that it was difficult to pinpoint where the sound was coming from. It's like a giant cloud of sound. This could be handy in situations where it's not practical to sit on axis.
I am considering building a lens for my current car project. I would like to use an 8" midrange, and I could use the lens to mount the woofers under the dash and redirect the speakers energy horizontally. (IE, there's no way we're going to get response past 500hz or so if we're listening to it on it's axis, but with a lens, it's do-able.)
If anyone wants to read up on it, here's a list of patents. I'm too lazy to google the numbers.
Emanuel LaCarrubba - acoustic reproduction device
Emanuel LaCarrubba - acoustic reflector
Emanuel LaCarrubba - Apparatus for the redistribution of Acoustic Energy
Nice project, but I have to admit that I failed many years ago to duplicate what some manuf'r was doing. I did not follow closely what they were doing, thought I could do my own thing and fooled myself for a while. Still even failure can be fun, and it's a great way to learn if not bitten too badly.
Good luck, looks like a wonderful project to tackle.
Thought you might want to see this effort.
Altec Lansing’s Omni Speakers
OMNI: Future Sound Speakers | Swipelife
Long tube shaped speakers have found their way into automobiles before, just depends where you put it and if you can reflect off the glass of a hatchback or something.
The cubes at the start of this thread do look cute though.
Good luck, looks like a wonderful project to tackle.
Thought you might want to see this effort.
Altec Lansing’s Omni Speakers
OMNI: Future Sound Speakers | Swipelife
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Long tube shaped speakers have found their way into automobiles before, just depends where you put it and if you can reflect off the glass of a hatchback or something.
The cubes at the start of this thread do look cute though.
Much to my surprise, Bob Carver is selling a speaker which is virtually identical to the B&O. Bob uses a ribbon instead of an acoustic lens, but the goal is the same (directivity control.)
Commentary here, plus an interview w/the designer:
Audio Psychosis • View topic - Ultra Small Midranges
Commentary here, plus an interview w/the designer:
Audio Psychosis • View topic - Ultra Small Midranges
Thanks for the link "Patrick"
Over the months I've been reading about your attention to diffraction so went out and bought a carbide round over bit and better random orbital sander. Went to work and edges became round, speaker bezels were rounded off and heavy sanding and new stain was the project.
Always liked Bob Carver--worry about things that actually matter is his mantra and I've enjoyed my M1.5T for 23 years now. Never owned any of his speakers due to size and moving around every couple of years.
I've noticed some speakers use felt and that sort of thing around the tweeters and wonder if it would assist in the quest? Just finished building my center channel speaker, all drivers are flush with a rounded bezel but wonder about the felt trick. Figure it will all be hidden under a grill so might as well go ugly early.
Does felt work or should I concentrate on a polished polyurethane finish?
Over the months I've been reading about your attention to diffraction so went out and bought a carbide round over bit and better random orbital sander. Went to work and edges became round, speaker bezels were rounded off and heavy sanding and new stain was the project.
Always liked Bob Carver--worry about things that actually matter is his mantra and I've enjoyed my M1.5T for 23 years now. Never owned any of his speakers due to size and moving around every couple of years.
I've noticed some speakers use felt and that sort of thing around the tweeters and wonder if it would assist in the quest? Just finished building my center channel speaker, all drivers are flush with a rounded bezel but wonder about the felt trick. Figure it will all be hidden under a grill so might as well go ugly early.
Does felt work or should I concentrate on a polished polyurethane finish?
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Felt works in a manner similar to acoustic tiles. Due to the much smaller size of the ridges, the effect of felt doesn't go as low. This is why you see it used near tweeters - it would have little to no effect at lower frequencies.
I built a diffuser for my car, and documented it in my forum. Pics and listening observations here:
Audio Psychosis • View topic - Omnipolar Loudspeaker
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