Monitor Audio RS8 speakers harsh sounding.

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1. Toe-out the loudspeakers first. (rotating away from the listening position.) Also consider some higher freq. absorptive material on the side-wall closest to each loudspeaker.

2. Add a powered subwoofer with an extended low freq. response.

3. Look to an amplifier with a less aggressive top-end. Usually a pure class A solid-state amplifier OR a tube amp with larger output transformers and limited high freq. bandwidth.

and if neccesary:

4. (THEN) look into altering the crossover.


USUALLY the combination of 1 & 2 is sufficient. 1 is the cheapest and easiest "fix", but 2 is what usually "seals the deal" for most people.
 
I have a Denon home-theater receiver and the sonics are nothing to write home about - apparently, the weak point of these things is the very modest power amplifier section (the power ratings are largely fictitious).

If I didn't already have a pair of over-the-top triode amplifiers, I'd run out and buy Bob Latino's Stereo 70 kit. What I like about the VTA circuit is that it does three very important things:

1) Discards the unreliable and not very linear 7199 input/phase-splitter tube (which was originally chosen because it was a cheap part widely used in the black-and-white televisions of the day). The pentode section, in particular, was never designed for audio use and has quite poor performance in that application.

In addition, there is an outright design error in the original Stereo 70. The 7199 is operated with the (phase-splitter) triode section exceeding the manufacturer's maximum heater-cathode voltage, which over time, causes destruction of the insulating layer of the heater, current flow between the heater and cathode, and failure of the tube. (Thanks to Matt Kamna for spotting that one.)

2) Replaces the split-load inverter with a Mullard input amplifier and phase splitter. The grid of the "bottom" driver is AC-coupled to ground, and DC-coupled to the grid of the "top" driver. This provides the same DC operating point for both tubes, and the phase-splitting action is provided by the common cathode connection and the long-tail resistor.

In other words, at audio frequencies, the driver operates as a differential amplifier for the power tubes. The more linear current available to charge the Miller capacitance of the power tubes, the faster the amp can slew, and the better the HF performance. More current in the driver stage = faster amplifier. This is true for transistor amps as well.

3) As a result, the open-loop bandwidth is greatly improved over the original Dynaco Stereo 70, which results in much lower distortion at the top and bottom of the audio band, as well as better phase margin. The importance of extended open-loop bandwidth cannot be overstated - it's the difference between mushy and distorted sound and clarity and a sense of "ease" with a wide range of program material.

The VTA circuit retains the best part of the original Dynaco (simplicity and value-for-money) while discarding the original set of design compromises. Not really all that expensive, either, considering the VTA/Latino amplifier is comparable or superior to commercial high-end amplifiers in the $5,000 to $10,000 range.
 
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Hi,

As previously mentioned - how long have you had them for? I used to have the RS2s and while I no longer have them, I do think very highly of them. I upgraded from a fairly ordinary pair of speakers and it did take me a long time to mentally adjust. So if you haven't already, give them a few weeks, then try your old ones again if you still have them, and see where you are.

I'm assuming it's not distortion that's causing the impression of harshness. You could consider an active filter to bring down the high end (a low pass shelving filter, see the Linkwitz active filter website). Try a few different values to see if you can get the sound you want. My feeling is you'll need very good measurements and and a lot of time to improve the stock XO.

Tom
 
try a thin facecloth over the tweet and / or the midrange.

I had a vega that had 1 face cloth over mid and 2 over the tweet.
A neighbor said "Why are you covering the tweeter?"
I lifted the faceclothes off and he went "ahhhhhhh."

Or get a 10 band eq from a pawn shop and play.

Or it could be you are hearing cone resonances.

Non metallic cast polymer frames = plastic, klipsch is doing the same thing.

Norman
 
Hi! I have a pair of Monitor Audio RS8 speakers and I find that they sound a bit bright/harsh with music. I am considering upgrading the crossovers, but was wondering if there are other things I could try first.

Any ideas?


I'd be surprised if the Monitor Audios are harsh. In my experience the harsh sound you describe comes from the electronics, and a revealing speaker makes the problem worse. Silver cables are another possible cause.

Could you borrow another amp/source to try and rule them out.
 
first thing to try is to pad down the tweeters a bit

What is padding down a tweeter? Is it putting something over it?

1. Toe-out the loudspeakers first. (rotating away from the listening position.) Also consider some higher freq. absorptive material on the side-wall closest to each loudspeaker.

2. Add a powered subwoofer with an extended low freq. response.

3. Look to an amplifier with a less aggressive top-end. Usually a pure class A solid-state amplifier OR a tube amp with larger output transformers and limited high freq. bandwidth.

and if neccesary:

4. (THEN) look into altering the crossover.


USUALLY the combination of 1 & 2 is sufficient. 1 is the cheapest and easiest "fix", but 2 is what usually "seals the deal" for most people.

I have done 1 and 2. What type of material absorbs the higher frequencies?

Would adding a power amp to my Denon help? I can get a couple of Arcam P1's for a very good price. Would these help? Or would it be better using a separate integrated amp?

No-one's asked the obvious.

How long have you given them to run-in?

I've had them for 3 months and they've had about 100-150 hours of run in time.

Cheap, simple, easy to reverse, might be worth trying
PART 2: Edge Diffraction

Regards
James

Looks interesting. Will give it a try.

I'd be surprised if the Monitor Audios are harsh. In my experience the harsh sound you describe comes from the electronics, and a revealing speaker makes the problem worse. Silver cables are another possible cause.

Could you borrow another amp/source to try and rule them out.

I used to have an Arcam AVR300 receiver with some MA RS6 speakers and I do not remember the sound being harsh at all. So perhaps it is the room accoustics (wooden floor with 2 thin carpets covering about 70% of the floor; the curtains are very thin; there's nothing on the walls yet), and/or the Denon. Unfortunately, I do not have another amp I could try.

The shop with the P1's also has an Arcam AVR350 which would probably sound better for stereo music. The only problem is that it does not decode the High Def audio formats.
 
What is padding down a tweeter? Is it putting something over it?



I have done 1 and 2. What type of material absorbs the higher frequencies?

Would adding a power amp to my Denon help? I can get a couple of Arcam P1's for a very good price. Would these help? Or would it be better using a separate integrated amp?

I used to have an Arcam AVR300 receiver with some MA RS6 speakers and I do not remember the sound being harsh at all. So perhaps it is the room accoustics (wooden floor with 2 thin carpets covering about 70% of the floor; the curtains are very thin; there's nothing on the walls yet), and/or the Denon. Unfortunately, I do not have another amp I could try.

The shop with the P1's also has an Arcam AVR350 which would probably sound better for stereo music. The only problem is that it does not decode the High Def audio formats.

Padding down a tweeter is adding resistance to that portion of the tweeter's crossover to lower it's output. (..potentially problematic if the crossover is a "series" based, but it's likely that it's a parallel crossover.) In other words this references #4 on my list: "modifying the crossover" - something better left to someone with experience. If the Denon has a treble control, then to some measure this effectively is "padding down" the tweeter (but "ahead" of the loudspeaker's crossover). So if you have that ability, try that (..in that it doesn't cost you anything and can be easily "undone").

Most compliant materials absorb higher freq.s. i.e. Fabric materials, especially in layers. Curtains (the thicker the better), cushioned & textile fabric sofas and chairs, and if of last resort - foam panels (either diy-made or purchased). Only *after* you have done what you think is domestically acceptable here, should you try other methods. If this doesn't work out then look to the amplifier.

As far as amplifiers go, try out several different types - if you can. Borrow from friends (..perhaps join an audio club), look to shops that offer a full return of you money (..if things don't work out), and perhaps consider a good value tube amplifier like Lynn mentioned - if that interests you and you have a preamp (or preamp outs on your Denon). (..and the Dollar is pretty weak against the Euro right now, so chances are you'll get a bit more for your money if you purchase from the US.) When you start looking around the shops near you *don't* purchase the first thing that sounds decent (and perhaps *just* fixes your problem), you may find something that sounds a LOT better from that retailer or another. Just let the retailer know you plan on an extensive search with the assurance that *if* you find what you are looking for from something they have available, that the purchase will be made with them.
 
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I also considered the RS8 to sound too harsh when i first listened to them. After the first month i got used to them and today i love them.
Now i have set-up a bi-amp configuration. The only problem is that MA does not specify the crossover freq. between the LF (woofers) and the HF. I used a function generator and i pined it down to about 120Hz.
Sound is excellent but i wish i could find out the freq response of the speakers.
Monitor Audio won't reply to my e-mail :(
 
Monitor Audio RS8 Capacitors

Hello
I just read your post re - Monitor audio RS8 capacitor values . They are 6.0uf and 4.0uf . My RS8's sounded so bright and harsh when I got them that I put them back in the boxes and went back to my old speakers for over a year . I did a lot of research to find a cure and just recently I modded the crossovers as suggested by the guys at WHAT Hi Fi . I fitted Mundorf Supreme Capacitors and I will also be fitting Deulund resistors ( one broke so I could'nt fit them at the same time ) . The speakers have been transformed . They are no longer harsh and irritating , they are now very clear and accurate and very rich sounding . If you provide me with your email I will send you all the details and the pictures of the crossover . It took me a long time to get around to doing the mods but it was definately worth it , I now have speakers that I want to listen to more and more .
 
Good luck with snake-oil capacitors and such, but harshness is more likely to be cone-breakup sounds from a metal woofer and an overly bright treble.

This typical (good) metal driver illustrates the problem.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


It takes a well-designed crossover to tame metal cones. Something you proably haven't got in a regular commercial speaker. My advice would be to draw the crossover schematic, and see what can be done in the diy line. :cool:
 
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