Michael: This thread will explain my set-up (there a picture there as well)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/154630-need-help-will-pay-small-service.html
The 740's are boxed, run from 450Hz to 70Hz pr so.
Since that thread, I have reduced the mids to just 1. the one on top is not engaged... have other plans for it.
I not familiar with open baffle so I can't comment on suitability of drivers. Looking at what you have, the problem is not the components. The top is very wrong. No matter what you throw at it, it won't sound right.
What I would do is to get the speakers running properly first. Abandon the open baffle for the time being. Retain the 4 woofers below but change the top to a conventional MTM. Build a small sealed box for the MTM. Stuff it well with fiber glass wool. Keep the drivers as close as possible, 1/4" gap or less between mid and tweeter and cross low at 2K5. For woofer to MTM, cross at 100-250Hz.
This will put you in the ballpark. You can fine tune the speakers after this.
What I would do is to get the speakers running properly first. Abandon the open baffle for the time being. Retain the 4 woofers below but change the top to a conventional MTM. Build a small sealed box for the MTM. Stuff it well with fiber glass wool. Keep the drivers as close as possible, 1/4" gap or less between mid and tweeter and cross low at 2K5. For woofer to MTM, cross at 100-250Hz.
This will put you in the ballpark. You can fine tune the speakers after this.
I chose the 2 tweeter + Super tweet design cause I used to blow out single tweets all the time. (including the XT25's which I use now). To Change to a TM or even MTM would mean redesigning a major portion of the speaker. Doable but i need to think some more.
On the other hand, the TB W4-1720 came in. I prefer it over the ZA14 as it is much easier to voice it than the ZA14 which was giving me a headache. My wife prefers the ZA14 which she says sounds like that tall speaker you had 10 years back (Martin Logan Monolith's)... it does have some of those characteristics but is peaky... the TBw5-1685 and W4-1720 are more well behaved but need 1-2db more sensitivity...
I have the W4-1720's installed... I like the better than the ZA14's but the wife says they sound like the older ones (P13's) ... Sheesh! I think they are more detailed...but maybe I voiced them similar....
Back to work!
On the other hand, the TB W4-1720 came in. I prefer it over the ZA14 as it is much easier to voice it than the ZA14 which was giving me a headache. My wife prefers the ZA14 which she says sounds like that tall speaker you had 10 years back (Martin Logan Monolith's)... it does have some of those characteristics but is peaky... the TBw5-1685 and W4-1720 are more well behaved but need 1-2db more sensitivity...
I have the W4-1720's installed... I like the better than the ZA14's but the wife says they sound like the older ones (P13's) ... Sheesh! I think they are more detailed...but maybe I voiced them similar....
Back to work!
Measurements!
I finally invested in an iphone based measurement suite called Audio tools by StudioSixDigital.
It was cheaper than separate preamps RTA's Mics etc plus I did not have to wait...
Anyway after measuring the P13 I found out why i didnt like it.... see graphs later.
Also this is a first pass, so measurements may be off a little but seems like a start.
First Pic ZA14 farfield. (SPL not to scale)
Second Pic ZA14 close Miked
Third Pic TB W5-1685
4th Pic Vifa P13 (note the screechy peak at 1700Hz)
Last Pic, the main system (4 W8-740's and TB w4-1720 and three XT25's), I swept the speaker top to bottom. Since the woofer responses do not add, assume that the 70Hz to 250Hz region is understanded by about 9db...
Please look at the yellow trace only.
as mentioned earlier, the TB-W4 seems to be a good fit and the response shows the system sounds better. There are peaks but nothing horrible...
I finally invested in an iphone based measurement suite called Audio tools by StudioSixDigital.
It was cheaper than separate preamps RTA's Mics etc plus I did not have to wait...
Anyway after measuring the P13 I found out why i didnt like it.... see graphs later.
Also this is a first pass, so measurements may be off a little but seems like a start.
First Pic ZA14 farfield. (SPL not to scale)
Second Pic ZA14 close Miked
Third Pic TB W5-1685
4th Pic Vifa P13 (note the screechy peak at 1700Hz)
Last Pic, the main system (4 W8-740's and TB w4-1720 and three XT25's), I swept the speaker top to bottom. Since the woofer responses do not add, assume that the 70Hz to 250Hz region is understanded by about 9db...
Please look at the yellow trace only.
as mentioned earlier, the TB-W4 seems to be a good fit and the response shows the system sounds better. There are peaks but nothing horrible...
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Yes, can be in sealed. 6L is fine. F3 is about 115-120Hz
In a 3-way, I prefer using a mid woofer than a midrange because with midwoofers, I can cross lower. 110-120Hz is where I like to cross. With a midrange, they are more comfortable at 900Hz.
I'm considering a 3-way with ZA14. Maybe in MTM. Still not decided yet.
In a 3-way, I prefer using a mid woofer than a midrange because with midwoofers, I can cross lower. 110-120Hz is where I like to cross. With a midrange, they are more comfortable at 900Hz.
I'm considering a 3-way with ZA14. Maybe in MTM. Still not decided yet.
The ZA14's for the price are special, but you need to know how to smooth them out. They remind me of an old TAD/Pioneer Boron (sic) Mid I had, very revealing, but with peaks and ultimately fatiguing if not crossed over properly.
Owning a pair, I can tell you they definitely have potential...
Owning a pair, I can tell you they definitely have potential...
Hi guys... a good several years later, I am in need for another mid.
A bit of an update on my original question. I ended up with Dynavox LW6004PMR's. Really like them. After several crossover designs... I ended up leaving them crossoverless... and to my surprise they sound very good. With any crossover, I added glare and lack of details. Without, they feel open and non fatiquing.
This time, Its for a Home theatre (in a small room). I bought an old pair of paradigm monitor 10 v4's. They sound ok but have horrible mids and distort very quickly when driven above 70-100 watts. I decided to remove the inbuilt crossover and added my own 300Hz Low-pass. So now I have a 300Hz to 20kHz hole to fill.
Any ideas? am considering an open baffle addition on the sides on the paradigms. I am ok with MTM or MT. The tweeters will be XT25's
Thinking about Scan-Speak 15M or 15W or SB Satori or even the Dynavox's
A bit of an update on my original question. I ended up with Dynavox LW6004PMR's. Really like them. After several crossover designs... I ended up leaving them crossoverless... and to my surprise they sound very good. With any crossover, I added glare and lack of details. Without, they feel open and non fatiquing.
This time, Its for a Home theatre (in a small room). I bought an old pair of paradigm monitor 10 v4's. They sound ok but have horrible mids and distort very quickly when driven above 70-100 watts. I decided to remove the inbuilt crossover and added my own 300Hz Low-pass. So now I have a 300Hz to 20kHz hole to fill.
Any ideas? am considering an open baffle addition on the sides on the paradigms. I am ok with MTM or MT. The tweeters will be XT25's
Thinking about Scan-Speak 15M or 15W or SB Satori or even the Dynavox's
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