Title says it all.
I don't know of any stores that sell professional speaker grill cloth, but there must be some fabric that sounds/costs/looks just as good/better than the commercial stuff. The question is what?
My ideas are window/door screen material, or silk, or something... cotton is probably the worst. Something synthetic like very thin polyester might be best. How do metal screens compare (considering sound only)?
The cloth doesn't have to (but can be) be opaque, or rigid, or particularly sexy. Just needs to not sound like there is a grill cloth.
I don't know of any stores that sell professional speaker grill cloth, but there must be some fabric that sounds/costs/looks just as good/better than the commercial stuff. The question is what?
My ideas are window/door screen material, or silk, or something... cotton is probably the worst. Something synthetic like very thin polyester might be best. How do metal screens compare (considering sound only)?
The cloth doesn't have to (but can be) be opaque, or rigid, or particularly sexy. Just needs to not sound like there is a grill cloth.
I've used "silk" that was meant for the surrounds of picture frames. I think it is actually rayon, most of it.
This can be found in most fabric stores in a wide varity of colors and textures. You want the lightest, most open you can get. It does not look like typical grill cloth, which is nice. It seems to have a little attenuation at the very top, so you have to live with it, or EQ it. But it's pretty transparent thru most of the audio range.
Just an idea for a different, and perhaps prettier, way of doing it.
This can be found in most fabric stores in a wide varity of colors and textures. You want the lightest, most open you can get. It does not look like typical grill cloth, which is nice. It seems to have a little attenuation at the very top, so you have to live with it, or EQ it. But it's pretty transparent thru most of the audio range.
Just an idea for a different, and perhaps prettier, way of doing it.
If you want something that is very transparent both sonicly and visually you might consider trying black fiberglass screen door netting from your local Home Depot or equivalent.
You need to get it very taught because any little flaw will show, but you will get both a "finished" look to the speaker with virtually no "muffling" of the high frequencies and you will still be able to see the drivers (a personal preference) - gives it kind of a techno/industrial look.
P.S. - consider offsetting the fabric 45 degrees to get a diamond pattern.
You need to get it very taught because any little flaw will show, but you will get both a "finished" look to the speaker with virtually no "muffling" of the high frequencies and you will still be able to see the drivers (a personal preference) - gives it kind of a techno/industrial look.
P.S. - consider offsetting the fabric 45 degrees to get a diamond pattern.
In case it helps, here are a couple of links for cloth you can order on line...
Parts Express
Meniscus Audio
I have tried the Parts Express material and it works fine (no audible difference with grills on or off to my ears - with my old Advents). I ordered some of the stuff sold by Meniscus Audio to compare (my guess is they are the same polyester material, but time will tell). Bedsheets apparently work fine also.
-Doug
Parts Express
Meniscus Audio
I have tried the Parts Express material and it works fine (no audible difference with grills on or off to my ears - with my old Advents). I ordered some of the stuff sold by Meniscus Audio to compare (my guess is they are the same polyester material, but time will tell). Bedsheets apparently work fine also.
-Doug
If you really can't find 'speaker cloth' that you like, take a trip to your local fabric store, and you will find many possibilities.
If you want something very transparent they make a screen like cloth that you might see in a wedding vial, though in many colors and patterns. This fabric also has a light stretch to it.
In looking at extremely open weaver fabric like this, you want to make sure that the crossing thread don't just overlap, but are actually stuck together so they don't vibrate against each other.
I used a very common double knit double (two-way) stretch fabric on mine. I can't tell any difference between it being on or off the speaker. And since it is stretchy, it holds its shape pretty tightly.
I've also considered using fiberglass window screen, but it does not stretch. Though you can get frames to make window screens that you cut to size and fasten the screen into the frame with some spline that is pressed into a groove. The keeps the cloth reasonably tight, though whether tight enough to be satisfactory I can't say.
When you are in the fabric store, hold the fabric up to the light. The better you can see through it, the better it is going to work.
Again, it is also better to have a stretch fabric to keep the cloth tight over the frame. Fabric can stretch horizontal only, vertical only, or horizontally and vertically, or only in a diagonal direction.
I had real good luck with a common double knit stretch fabric that was reasonably thin, and reasonably visually transparent; stretches nice, holds it shape, lasts for decades, and has little effect on the sound.
Steve/bluewizard
If you want something very transparent they make a screen like cloth that you might see in a wedding vial, though in many colors and patterns. This fabric also has a light stretch to it.
In looking at extremely open weaver fabric like this, you want to make sure that the crossing thread don't just overlap, but are actually stuck together so they don't vibrate against each other.
I used a very common double knit double (two-way) stretch fabric on mine. I can't tell any difference between it being on or off the speaker. And since it is stretchy, it holds its shape pretty tightly.
I've also considered using fiberglass window screen, but it does not stretch. Though you can get frames to make window screens that you cut to size and fasten the screen into the frame with some spline that is pressed into a groove. The keeps the cloth reasonably tight, though whether tight enough to be satisfactory I can't say.
When you are in the fabric store, hold the fabric up to the light. The better you can see through it, the better it is going to work.
Again, it is also better to have a stretch fabric to keep the cloth tight over the frame. Fabric can stretch horizontal only, vertical only, or horizontally and vertically, or only in a diagonal direction.
I had real good luck with a common double knit stretch fabric that was reasonably thin, and reasonably visually transparent; stretches nice, holds it shape, lasts for decades, and has little effect on the sound.
Steve/bluewizard
ROFL well thanks, i'll try the diagonal screen-door, double knit stuff, and fishnets. should be fun buying them-- "hi, i need some XXXL size fishnet underwear ... and a new screen-door 
...... and where is your fabric department, i'd like to browse the fabrics..." Maybe a hat and sunglasses are in order
Anyway thanks everyone, very helpful as always. i'll test all three and see if my ears are good enough to tell the difference.
...... and where is your fabric department, i'd like to browse the fabrics..." Maybe a hat and sunglasses are in order Anyway thanks everyone, very helpful as always. i'll test all three and see if my ears are good enough to tell the difference.
The screen FRAME is the culprit!
Thanks for all the advise... I did several tests, and was kind of surprised by all of it. I started with a cotton shirt on my frame to get used to doing the AB screen tests, and what to listen for. Then with nothing, then with thin silk which was better than the t-shirt. Then I tried a stretched black stocking-material, and finally some screen door stuff, at first not hearing any difference. Having listened to the screen-door material for a few days, and then taking it off for an album just for fun, the sound of the cymbals changed a little. While I was listening to the album with no screens, I took the screen off the frame, and put the bare frame back on to continue the album. IT WAS THE FRAME that made the subtle but still audible difference. It must be something about the edge diffraction, or who knows.
I'm working on a new frame. It will be like a scroll, so the edges aren't a problem. It will be a thin bar on the top fastened to the screen, which will dangle down with no sides, and have another bar on the bottom as weight. Anything _that_ does to the cymbals I can handle
Thanks for all the advise... I did several tests, and was kind of surprised by all of it. I started with a cotton shirt on my frame to get used to doing the AB screen tests, and what to listen for. Then with nothing, then with thin silk which was better than the t-shirt. Then I tried a stretched black stocking-material, and finally some screen door stuff, at first not hearing any difference. Having listened to the screen-door material for a few days, and then taking it off for an album just for fun, the sound of the cymbals changed a little. While I was listening to the album with no screens, I took the screen off the frame, and put the bare frame back on to continue the album. IT WAS THE FRAME that made the subtle but still audible difference. It must be something about the edge diffraction, or who knows.
I'm working on a new frame. It will be like a scroll, so the edges aren't a problem. It will be a thin bar on the top fastened to the screen, which will dangle down with no sides, and have another bar on the bottom as weight. Anything _that_ does to the cymbals I can handle
Some more grill cloth:
http://www.acousticsfirst.com/guilfrd1.htm
http://www.acoustonegrillecloth.com/about.htm#
http://www.radiodaze.com/grilleclothpatterns.htm
Foam:
http://www.foamspeakergrilles.com/
DIY framing:
http://www.humanspeakers.com/howto/grill.htm
FWIW, I either used expanded double knit fabric for decor matching and window screen or hardware wire or the pet resistant variety when protection was paramount.
GM
http://www.acousticsfirst.com/guilfrd1.htm
http://www.acoustonegrillecloth.com/about.htm#
http://www.radiodaze.com/grilleclothpatterns.htm
Foam:
http://www.foamspeakergrilles.com/
DIY framing:
http://www.humanspeakers.com/howto/grill.htm
FWIW, I either used expanded double knit fabric for decor matching and window screen or hardware wire or the pet resistant variety when protection was paramount.
GM
Does it make a difference what the material is (i.e. rayon, cotton, silk, polyester), in sound quality/transparency, that is?
Fabric type does make a difference
Yes Jimmy154. The smoother the fiber in the fabric, the better. The problem with grille fabrics is attenuation of the mids and mostly the highs. If you don't mind a modern type of fabric, polyester wovens sold by Parts Express and Meniscus are your best bet.
Don't use cotton or burlap because they are fuzzy and that's exactly what diminishes the highs.
Yes Jimmy154. The smoother the fiber in the fabric, the better. The problem with grille fabrics is attenuation of the mids and mostly the highs. If you don't mind a modern type of fabric, polyester wovens sold by Parts Express and Meniscus are your best bet.
Don't use cotton or burlap because they are fuzzy and that's exactly what diminishes the highs.
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