Telstar said:
Don't forget the plate amps. This is a "servo" design, and to get that effect requires one of those Rythmick plate amps (per channel). It does NOT require additional "eq". (..the price of shipping on an amp should be less than 1 driver's shipping cost.)
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=54875.0
Specifically:
"No changes have to be made to the amp. It is plug and play.
I get good output all the way up to 300Hz from my measurements, and with the built in EQ function I can get flat response all the way down to 20Hz. In my room I didn't have to add gain with the EQ either. I had to take away some output at 28Hz to make it flat."
If you go the full DIY route with peerless xxls drivers you may pay more for the drivers considering their retail price, and any break you might get on currency conversion. Dido for amps/components with proper eq.. You would NOT get the advantage of the "servo" system though.
tinitus said:
No idea
I would consider a good midrange oriented 12-15"
Yes, that's what I'm looking for, good woofers, with a quality good enough to go up to 200hz, but a Fs closer to 30hz than 50.
And active sub, maybe like ripole, below 100hz
I dont have the space. The woofer(s) will have to go into the same baffles.
In EU, FaitalPro, 12FH500, 12FH520, W15N8-350, 18FH500
Faitalpro? Never heard of them?
What about Beyma (12BR70, SM112N and 12LX60)?
I have considered Volt, PHL and ATC units, but they are all too expensive.
I believe Martin King realised that staying around 90db makes things much easier
I dont need very high spl (read neighbors). That helps my case.
ScottG said:
See my previous post about which drivers I plan to use. They dont cost more than the GR ones.
You would NOT get the advantage of the "servo" system though.
What exactly does this servo than the Rechkorn units do not?
http://www.reckhorn.com/index.php?ln=en&prod=b1
If I want complete EQ, i would take the XTC units. One can drive 2 or 4 woofers in stereo.
But I plan to do fine tuning EQ in the computer, so that doesnt matter. I need only more power in the amp.
I made a thread in the subwoofer forum a couple of weeks ago. I'm changing my mind about the drivers because of increased frequency requirements (specifically in the mid-bass)
At any case, I very very much prefer to avoid overseas shipping of anything that does not fit in a documents envelope.
Telstar said:
A pair of 12LX60's (per side) should work, but without some serious equalization below fs you won't get much in the way of very low freq.s. (..and hopefully you don't listen to music with very low freq.s as a continuous average.)
For the "servo" system and its potential benefits - see their website (Rythmik) and do a search here.
ScottG:
A pair of 12LX60's (per side) should work
Not the cheapest of the block but I can afford them.
The 12BR70 wont do, eh?
An other option would be a SINGLE GR 12" woofer per side, to keep shipping at a reasonable level. Enough?
(..and hopefully you don't listen to music with very low freq.s as a continuous average.)
No, I dont.
For the "servo" system and its potential benefits - see their website (Rythmik) and do a search here.
I did check the Rythmik amps and they do more or less what the reckhorn units do for less money and they are german. I'm considering another active crossover/eq made by an italian company but will be released at the beginning of june. it's even more flexible.
You may have missed that I will also equalize digitally in the computer source, leaving to the reckhorn only the task of XO. My room is too messy between 60 and 110hz that even the Behringer wasn't enough (i tried, with different speakers, though).
PS: Still nobody answered about advantages and disadvantages of multiple woofers (besides the obvious = more spl)
A pair of 12LX60's (per side) should work
Not the cheapest of the block but I can afford them.
The 12BR70 wont do, eh?
An other option would be a SINGLE GR 12" woofer per side, to keep shipping at a reasonable level. Enough?
(..and hopefully you don't listen to music with very low freq.s as a continuous average.)
No, I dont.
For the "servo" system and its potential benefits - see their website (Rythmik) and do a search here.
I did check the Rythmik amps and they do more or less what the reckhorn units do for less money and they are german. I'm considering another active crossover/eq made by an italian company but will be released at the beginning of june. it's even more flexible.
You may have missed that I will also equalize digitally in the computer source, leaving to the reckhorn only the task of XO. My room is too messy between 60 and 110hz that even the Behringer wasn't enough (i tried, with different speakers, though).
PS: Still nobody answered about advantages and disadvantages of multiple woofers (besides the obvious = more spl)
Telstar said:
The Reckhorn unit linked is just a crossover and eq., NOT an amplifier nor a type of "servo" system. (..they do of course ALSO have amp & crossover and eq.. in fact I have one. The power supply and amp output stage is particularly "robust".)
For an advertisement of the "servo" look here:
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DirectServo.html
A single 12 by the floor might do what *you* need, but a pair of 12LX60's may work better (particularly at higher freq.s) - with proper eq. of course.
Multiple woofers:
Good - higher spls for a given watt of input and lower non-linear distortion.
Bad - potential problems with power response at differing axis, problems with boundary loading. If you have a digital eq., and its just you critically listening (in a stationary position) - not a significant problem.
ScottG:
The Reckhorn unit linked is just a crossover and eq., NOT an amplifier nor a type of "servo" system. (..they do of course ALSO have amp & crossover and eq.. in fact I have one. The power supply and amp output stage is particularly "robust".)
Yes, I know. Their amp (which includes eq) is mono, so I was considering to get the XO and buy a pro amp such as Alesis RA300 (which I heard in the Linkwitz Orions and I had nothing to complain about the bass of 4x peerless 10" - think were 10").
BTW I know what you mean by robust. I asked for a soft start circuit to not blow my home fuse, and they misunderstood my request, then i gave up.
For an advertisement of the "servo" look here:
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DirectServo.html
Ah, ok i get it now. It's a kind of way of eliminating the distortions caused by NFB, while keeping the advantages (damping).
Smart I have to say.
I dont see the speaker OUTPUTS in rytmik amps: they are all mono right?
Because I dont have a large room I think i can manage with a single 12" per side, esp one optimized for OB. I'll drop an email to Danny and see.
A single 12 by the floor might do what *you* need, but a pair of 12LX60's may work better (particularly at higher freq.s) - with proper eq. of course.
250hz is the highest i'll ever go.
There is another problem that IMO matters, the distance between the woofer and the FR, will be approx 50cm, to keep the FR centered at ear level.
How important is that? More or less image issue than 2 woofers?
Keep in mind that high spl is not my goal, but low distortion absolutely is.
(snip: thanks for multiple W pro/cons)
The Reckhorn unit linked is just a crossover and eq., NOT an amplifier nor a type of "servo" system. (..they do of course ALSO have amp & crossover and eq.. in fact I have one. The power supply and amp output stage is particularly "robust".)
Yes, I know. Their amp (which includes eq) is mono, so I was considering to get the XO and buy a pro amp such as Alesis RA300 (which I heard in the Linkwitz Orions and I had nothing to complain about the bass of 4x peerless 10" - think were 10").
BTW I know what you mean by robust. I asked for a soft start circuit to not blow my home fuse, and they misunderstood my request, then i gave up.
For an advertisement of the "servo" look here:
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DirectServo.html
Ah, ok i get it now. It's a kind of way of eliminating the distortions caused by NFB, while keeping the advantages (damping).
Smart I have to say.
I dont see the speaker OUTPUTS in rytmik amps: they are all mono right?
Because I dont have a large room I think i can manage with a single 12" per side, esp one optimized for OB. I'll drop an email to Danny and see.
A single 12 by the floor might do what *you* need, but a pair of 12LX60's may work better (particularly at higher freq.s) - with proper eq. of course.
250hz is the highest i'll ever go.
There is another problem that IMO matters, the distance between the woofer and the FR, will be approx 50cm, to keep the FR centered at ear level.
How important is that? More or less image issue than 2 woofers?
Keep in mind that high spl is not my goal, but low distortion absolutely is.
(snip: thanks for multiple W pro/cons)
Telstar said:
Never heard of FaitalPro
its very hot, italian But they are genuine pro drivers with relatively low Qts, and may not work without subs, or heavy Eq
Though Graham Maynard use low qts drivers in OB, with his T-bas curcuit
Faital 18FH500 maybe - hard to imagine that an 18" wont make some "noise"
But theres an interesting Beyma, from their low cost SM series - SM118N with Qts 0.49
In Germany the chinese A&D from High-Tech-Hifi seems popular fore OB
Search on "traumboxen.de" or "hth-lautsprecher.de"
Telstar said:
If you will order from US, I suggest you look at AE speakers
They make special very nice OB woofers
OB15 or Dipole15
They are not listed, so you have to search and ask them directly
Made to order, so some waiting
I dont think you will find better
btw, the reckhorn you mentioned is also mono
Blue Planet Acoustic Shop sells an Omnes digital eq/filter unit, which could be used 2way stereo up to 500hz
I guess its designed by German "Hifi-Akademie.de"
Telstar said:
I dont see the speaker OUTPUTS in rytmik amps: they are all mono right?
Because I dont have a large room I think i can manage with a single 12" per side, esp one optimized for OB. I'll drop an email to Danny and see.
250hz is the highest i'll ever go.
There is another problem that IMO matters, the distance between the woofer and the FR, will be approx 50cm, to keep the FR centered at ear level.
How important is that? More or less image issue than 2 woofers?
Keep in mind that high spl is not my goal, but low distortion absolutely is.
(snip: thanks for multiple W pro/cons)
It's a mono amp and the outputs are "on the other side". You would need 2 (1 per channel), like the Reckhorn sub amp.
I'm not sure that any of the Rythmik's solutions have a crossover to extend up to even 200 Hz, let alone 250. Still, IF you have system-wide eq. it may not be a problem. Definitely talk to Danny about your application, if you are thinking of going this "route".
50 cm isn't a significant issue so long as the low-pass filter is moderately steep and at lower freq.s. In fact several designers actually utilize this design, (single woofer near floor crossover around 150 Hz), to achieve better measured in-room performance (..reducing the effects of floor bounce). It's typically *better* with just one woofer.
tinitus said:
Only the amp. The B1 XO is stereo and costs 60€.
http://www.reckhorn.com/index.php?ln=en&prod=b1
But the upper XO is only 150hz.
The S1 has everything i need but is mono. I enquired for stereo version.
Then there is this one (to be released in june):
http://www.dbtechnologies.com/mod_produkte.cfm?pgid=4&pugid=63&psugid=0&pid=216
Will check that other german XO checked Hifi-Akademie.de: way too expensive stuff. Two reckhorn S1 would set me for 180€.
BTW I'm Sure AE are good speakers, but, including shipping and taxes are way out of my budget. And because of some customer service issues like unanswered emails, I had to delete them from my list.
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