Ok to keep it short and snappy. for my product design A2 course I'm fitting removable speakers into my product. I wanted to research and test the best way to build the case to mount the speakers in.
The case should be 80x80x80mm on the exterior.
On my PC speakers they have an insulative material behind the speaker and then a sort of tunnel from the back of the speaker to the front which I can only presume boosts the bass.
Any advice on the internal shape, the materials and stuff?
Also what would be a good way to test the actual output apart from sound?
Record and analyze the output of the speaker with different cases and materials?
any help appreciated!
--------------------
Well I've learnt a bit from my first prototype.
I need to make some improvements such as:
- padding for the magnetic block on the back of the speaker to reduce unwanted vibrations and 'noise'
- Improve airflow to the rear of the speaker so it doesn't create a vacuum and produce muffled audio
- The driver bracket needs to fit the speaker more precisely to hold it more secure
- If possible use the airflow/vent to improve bass output
- make sure the positive and negative are soldered the right way round
Mark I sounded pretty decent for a first try. I used the speaker components from my existing PC speaker and un-soldered them from the case they came with.
Would anyone like to suggest where I can buy some high quality speakers with a diameter no bigger than 65mm?
Can I buy the drivers that companies such as Pioneer, KEF or Bose use/make?
The case should be 80x80x80mm on the exterior.
On my PC speakers they have an insulative material behind the speaker and then a sort of tunnel from the back of the speaker to the front which I can only presume boosts the bass.
Any advice on the internal shape, the materials and stuff?
Also what would be a good way to test the actual output apart from sound?
Record and analyze the output of the speaker with different cases and materials?
any help appreciated!
--------------------
Well I've learnt a bit from my first prototype.
I need to make some improvements such as:
- padding for the magnetic block on the back of the speaker to reduce unwanted vibrations and 'noise'
- Improve airflow to the rear of the speaker so it doesn't create a vacuum and produce muffled audio
- The driver bracket needs to fit the speaker more precisely to hold it more secure
- If possible use the airflow/vent to improve bass output
- make sure the positive and negative are soldered the right way round
Mark I sounded pretty decent for a first try. I used the speaker components from my existing PC speaker and un-soldered them from the case they came with.
Would anyone like to suggest where I can buy some high quality speakers with a diameter no bigger than 65mm?
Can I buy the drivers that companies such as Pioneer, KEF or Bose use/make?
Its probably a low budget compared to the type of people from this thread.
I tried google but it was hard to find drivers around 7mm/2.5"
especially since the results kept coming up with speakers systems with cases...
As for budget probably in the £5-£40 for the pair. To be honest I haven't a clue how much they should cost.
I have a pair of cheap labtec PC speakers which I took the drivers out of and they cost about £20 (for the sub/amp and x2 sat) and the drivers are actually really impressive.
So I'm thinking these speakers would cost around £5 the pair...?
What if I could go for £10 a pair and get a much improve performance (clarity, bass and volume)
Can someone help please?
Thanks for your time!
I tried google but it was hard to find drivers around 7mm/2.5"
especially since the results kept coming up with speakers systems with cases...
As for budget probably in the £5-£40 for the pair. To be honest I haven't a clue how much they should cost.
I have a pair of cheap labtec PC speakers which I took the drivers out of and they cost about £20 (for the sub/amp and x2 sat) and the drivers are actually really impressive.
So I'm thinking these speakers would cost around £5 the pair...?
What if I could go for £10 a pair and get a much improve performance (clarity, bass and volume)
Can someone help please?
Thanks for your time!
I thought it might be helpful to upload a few pictures of the first prototype.
I looked at Bose technologies and for their speaker systems they have pipes from the driver to the front of the case which supposedly improves sound performance. They try to make the waveguide (pipe) as long as possible too.
Would this be recommended to do and would it work with full range speakers? (I know Bose use it for subs but not sure about high range drivers)
thanks again people
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I looked at Bose technologies and for their speaker systems they have pipes from the driver to the front of the case which supposedly improves sound performance. They try to make the waveguide (pipe) as long as possible too.
Would this be recommended to do and would it work with full range speakers? (I know Bose use it for subs but not sure about high range drivers)
thanks again people
Hi,
http://www.zaphaudio.com/smalltest/
You are probably looking at 3" drivers.
Easiest source is cannibalising PC speakers, I do not know
of a good cheap source for these type of drivers in the UK.
A few generalisations of 3" drivers :
Need around 1.5L to 2L of box internal volume, possibly a little
lower if well stuffed. The parameters nearly always suit sealed.
Double (or more) the volume and venting becomes possible
but your always better off with a bigger driver (+ tweeter).
So stick with simple sealed boxes (unless you want a boom box).
For no subwoofer the NS3 or similar has the best bass output,
but the best value 3" drivers are about half the cost of the NS3.
Active or passive EQ can be used to improve quality.
Here is an example of passive, note the box could be smaller :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html
In a commercial product, EQ if applied would be active, built
around the feedback loop of the power amplifier, costing
far less and utilising amplifier power more efficiently.
Jordan / Bandor do nice 2"ers but they are far too expensive
for a normal "commercial" product and need subwoofers.
http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Producten_b.asp?Productgroep_ID=73
The smaller you go the smaller the boxes
and the higher the bass cut off point.
If the driving amplifier has low power then looking for higher
sensitivity is a good idea but you again will lose some bass.
/sreten.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/smalltest/
You are probably looking at 3" drivers.
Easiest source is cannibalising PC speakers, I do not know
of a good cheap source for these type of drivers in the UK.
A few generalisations of 3" drivers :
Need around 1.5L to 2L of box internal volume, possibly a little
lower if well stuffed. The parameters nearly always suit sealed.
Double (or more) the volume and venting becomes possible
but your always better off with a bigger driver (+ tweeter).
So stick with simple sealed boxes (unless you want a boom box).
For no subwoofer the NS3 or similar has the best bass output,
but the best value 3" drivers are about half the cost of the NS3.
Active or passive EQ can be used to improve quality.
Here is an example of passive, note the box could be smaller :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html
In a commercial product, EQ if applied would be active, built
around the feedback loop of the power amplifier, costing
far less and utilising amplifier power more efficiently.
Jordan / Bandor do nice 2"ers but they are far too expensive
for a normal "commercial" product and need subwoofers.
http://www.bmm-electronics.com/Producten_b.asp?Productgroep_ID=73
The smaller you go the smaller the boxes
and the higher the bass cut off point.
If the driving amplifier has low power then looking for higher
sensitivity is a good idea but you again will lose some bass.
/sreten.
Thanks for the reply, it really helps.
Just a few more questions;
1) You said that 3" drivers could need about 1.5-2L of volume. My box has about 0.5L, I'm very limited to the width and height of the case to pretty much 8cm possibly 9. I could go very deep though, but if I get the volume up by adding depth, wouldn't it sound bad because of echos etc...?
2) Quick question so with a small box and 3" drivers, the case can be sealed leaving no gaps for the air except through the actual speaker (if that)?
3) The Monacor SPH-30X drivers look really good. But on BMM audio they total at £65 delivered with VAT and everything when there only ~£23 each. I would prefer these speakers but they might be out of budget with the total price, any other recommended places to buy that model. Also I couldn't find the Aura NS3 available to buy on google :/
4) Would adding an amplifier to the pair of speakers that suit them (possibly making an electronic PCB Amplifier) take much more research. I would like the amp to match the max output on the speakers so I wont be able to blow them when running audio from say a PC.
5) I briefly read somewhere about impedance 4 and 8 Ohm in my case. Would I have to match the impedance's up with the right amp and sub?
6) And finally would it be best to have anything in the case behind the driver... cotton wool?
THANKS AGAIN FOR THE HELP ITS REALLY APPRECIATED!
Just a few more questions;
1) You said that 3" drivers could need about 1.5-2L of volume. My box has about 0.5L, I'm very limited to the width and height of the case to pretty much 8cm possibly 9. I could go very deep though, but if I get the volume up by adding depth, wouldn't it sound bad because of echos etc...?
2) Quick question so with a small box and 3" drivers, the case can be sealed leaving no gaps for the air except through the actual speaker (if that)?
3) The Monacor SPH-30X drivers look really good. But on BMM audio they total at £65 delivered with VAT and everything when there only ~£23 each. I would prefer these speakers but they might be out of budget with the total price, any other recommended places to buy that model. Also I couldn't find the Aura NS3 available to buy on google :/
4) Would adding an amplifier to the pair of speakers that suit them (possibly making an electronic PCB Amplifier) take much more research. I would like the amp to match the max output on the speakers so I wont be able to blow them when running audio from say a PC.
5) I briefly read somewhere about impedance 4 and 8 Ohm in my case. Would I have to match the impedance's up with the right amp and sub?
6) And finally would it be best to have anything in the case behind the driver... cotton wool?
THANKS AGAIN FOR THE HELP ITS REALLY APPRECIATED!
The little Monacor driver works well in a sealed enclosure of just 0.6L. Obviously won't produce much/any bass but should sound fairly balanced otherwise. You can also get them here where delivery is free but at the moment the site seems to have dissapeared into hyperspace; hopefully back soon:
http://www.soundsec.com/
Definately use BAF (polyester) wadding or better, lamswool, inside the enclosure.
http://www.soundsec.com/
Definately use BAF (polyester) wadding or better, lamswool, inside the enclosure.
Ive been speaking to a local specialist and hes advised that I should buy a couple of cheap tweeters because it will definitely be worth it so I should connect a 2.2uF capacitor before the tweeter then a 1mH fermite core coil before the Monacor driver (which he also recommended). I would also need an amp so he advised just buying an electronic DIY amp kit from like Maplins or something that could go about 50W per channel that I could run the signal through.
I asked about adding a sub and he said it would be a bit more complex and I said ill just stick to having a port for an external active subwoofer.
Could anyone help me confirm these last few queries before I go ahead and finalize my design?
I added up that with the 2x capacitors, 2x sph-30x, 2x coils, some cable, some sound material for the enclosure and some wire it totals at just under £100. Is this the right thing to do?
CHEERS
I asked about adding a sub and he said it would be a bit more complex and I said ill just stick to having a port for an external active subwoofer.
Could anyone help me confirm these last few queries before I go ahead and finalize my design?
I added up that with the 2x capacitors, 2x sph-30x, 2x coils, some cable, some sound material for the enclosure and some wire it totals at just under £100. Is this the right thing to do?
CHEERS
The monacors have decent high end but do have a significant peak around 10khz. You can null this with a notch filter but i'm not too familiar with passive crossover networks, someone on here might be able to help design? I could try it in SW CAD perhaps.
Alternatively you could leave it, by being off axis you will loose high end anyhow, but this would be inferior as you will loose any "very high" too as it were.
Alternatively you could leave it, by being off axis you will loose high end anyhow, but this would be inferior as you will loose any "very high" too as it were.
Just quickly, this may give satisfactory results to control the main peak (providing you use the 8 ohm version, SPH-30X-8). Use 2.2uF and 220nf to get 2.4uF, it might not be too critical anyhow. Thats a 0.1mH, or 100uH inductor. 22 ohm resistor, 5W+.
Ignore the graph titles, was modified from a B3N filter.
Ignore the graph titles, was modified from a B3N filter.
Attachments
I may leave it just as the speaker and the amp to be more cost effective but I don't want it to affect the performance too much. I'm not sure how much difference it would make with the coil and tweeters but coming from a novice I doubt it would make much noticable difference to many many people.
Could anyone recommend a cheap electronic amp or even where to buy one from (pre-made or DIY, there all good, I'm good with a soldering iron)
Would this be alright then to have just an amp going straight to the speakers with no crossover or anything?
Also if the amp is above 50W I want to protect the speakers from overpowering signals, could I fit in some component that could limit the signal to the speaker at 50W then?
cheers people
Could anyone recommend a cheap electronic amp or even where to buy one from (pre-made or DIY, there all good, I'm good with a soldering iron)
Would this be alright then to have just an amp going straight to the speakers with no crossover or anything?
Also if the amp is above 50W I want to protect the speakers from overpowering signals, could I fit in some component that could limit the signal to the speaker at 50W then?
cheers people
Keep it simple I think. Adding all these filters is way over the top for a small 3" PC speaker.
Put the speaker in a 1L sealed enclosure, stuff it with some fluffy insulation you can steal from your loft, and enjoy.
As for amps, building one may be more than you want to bother with. I'd suggest getting something like a Sonic Impact 'T-amp' or even better really, an old thing from eBay around 50watts. I assume the point is to show the speakers work, not to really make a commercial product?
Don't limit the power from the amp. Low power amps will blow a speaker more easily than a high power one because when they run out of juice they do nasty things. Just don't play them stupidly loud.
Put the speaker in a 1L sealed enclosure, stuff it with some fluffy insulation you can steal from your loft, and enjoy.
As for amps, building one may be more than you want to bother with. I'd suggest getting something like a Sonic Impact 'T-amp' or even better really, an old thing from eBay around 50watts. I assume the point is to show the speakers work, not to really make a commercial product?
Don't limit the power from the amp. Low power amps will blow a speaker more easily than a high power one because when they run out of juice they do nasty things. Just don't play them stupidly loud.
As another possibility, consider small drivers from or Tang Band. I've had good results from the HiVi M3N, but there are many flavors to choose from, many of which are quite reasonable in price. I don't know bout sourcing them in the UK, but they're international manufacturers.
Do check out the previously mentioned site, zaphaudio. There's a wealth of information about small (and other) drivers on there. Lots of very useful info.
Search on eBay for preassembled amp boards using the small Tripath chips. These will give you 7-15 watts off 12v, PLENTY of power for small drivers. There are many discussions in the class D forums about these boards. Or, check out 41hz.com for well-respected kits.
In my experience, a tweeter won't make a huge difference with these things, just adds a little more top-end "air." In your small box, it's hard to see where you could put one at any rate. If you do, you can just use a 1uf cap in series. You can probably skip the inductor, but it's easy enough to put it together and see what you get, and make changes later.
Best of luck.
Do check out the previously mentioned site, zaphaudio. There's a wealth of information about small (and other) drivers on there. Lots of very useful info.
Search on eBay for preassembled amp boards using the small Tripath chips. These will give you 7-15 watts off 12v, PLENTY of power for small drivers. There are many discussions in the class D forums about these boards. Or, check out 41hz.com for well-respected kits.
In my experience, a tweeter won't make a huge difference with these things, just adds a little more top-end "air." In your small box, it's hard to see where you could put one at any rate. If you do, you can just use a 1uf cap in series. You can probably skip the inductor, but it's easy enough to put it together and see what you get, and make changes later.
Best of luck.
The M3N and B3N are very nice but want a much larger box really and are also lower sensitivity. The SPH-30X seemed ideal for the small box and has the advantage of higher sensitivity too. Could always add one of these:
http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=23
on top
http://www.swanspeaker.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=23
on top
I'm likely to leave out the tweeter and therfore the cap and coil mainly to keep costs down and due to lack of space and simplicity of the design.
These are speaker for a desk im designing and there is a place where I could put the tweeters but I've decided not to have them.
Its just the matter of an amp and how im going to connect the circuit.
Input -> Split for active amp and integrated speakers -> amp -> L/R SPH-30x speakers
If I did the circuit like this wouldn't the input signals amplification be halved?
I need a stereo (or 2x mono) at 20W RMS or 50W Max amp. What would I search on ebay becuase I couldn't find any.. I'll check out the amp section of thios forum in the mean time.
what about something like this ?
cheers
These are speaker for a desk im designing and there is a place where I could put the tweeters but I've decided not to have them.
Its just the matter of an amp and how im going to connect the circuit.
Input -> Split for active amp and integrated speakers -> amp -> L/R SPH-30x speakers
If I did the circuit like this wouldn't the input signals amplification be halved?
I need a stereo (or 2x mono) at 20W RMS or 50W Max amp. What would I search on ebay becuase I couldn't find any.. I'll check out the amp section of thios forum in the mean time.
what about something like this ?
cheers
Try this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TA2024-CLass-T-...yZ163866QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The seller has been active on these pages and it will make a fine pile of sound.
Also this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-15-watt-4ohm-...ryZ39783QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This Sure Electronics board has its own thread elsewhere on the forum.
Search home electronics for "Class T" "Tripath" or "Class D." Also might try "2024."
All of these run well with 12-13.2 v switching power supplies meant for LCD monitors. Plenty of them on eBay as well.
Keep in mind that there is a marginal difference between 10 and 20 watts. These should suit your needs very well.
--Buckapound
http://cgi.ebay.com/TA2024-CLass-T-...yZ163866QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The seller has been active on these pages and it will make a fine pile of sound.
Also this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-15-watt-4ohm-...ryZ39783QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This Sure Electronics board has its own thread elsewhere on the forum.
Search home electronics for "Class T" "Tripath" or "Class D." Also might try "2024."
All of these run well with 12-13.2 v switching power supplies meant for LCD monitors. Plenty of them on eBay as well.
Keep in mind that there is a marginal difference between 10 and 20 watts. These should suit your needs very well.
--Buckapound
Surely 20W RMS is double 10W RMS and therefore has double the sound power?
Also those amps don't output 15W at 8Ohm, I would like an amp that could output 20W RMS at 8Ohm, stereo (or 2x mono if thats the same?)
Why are all these little circuit amps so expensive!?
I was thinking they were like £10 for 20W RMS 8ohm stereo and didn't think I'd have to buy a separate power supply either.
Is there no cheap amps with a power supply that can be plugged into the wall socket with those specs?
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