Nasty environment
Well pano the Pilbara is the back of beyond, but at the moment we are enjoying superb weather. We have only had a couple of Hot!! days so far. Most of the time it has been in the low to mid 30's only four days over 40 degrees since spring began. Can't wait for Summer
If you make it over here you're always welcome for a barbie and a listen to the system of the week.
Then we'll send you to stay with some friends with a goldmine at Marble Bar. The mine is actually at Bamboo Creek, an absolutely beautiful place bang in the middle of some really harsh country.
Peter.
Well pano the Pilbara is the back of beyond, but at the moment we are enjoying superb weather. We have only had a couple of Hot!! days so far. Most of the time it has been in the low to mid 30's only four days over 40 degrees since spring began. Can't wait for Summer
If you make it over here you're always welcome for a barbie and a listen to the system of the week.
Then we'll send you to stay with some friends with a goldmine at Marble Bar. The mine is actually at Bamboo Creek, an absolutely beautiful place bang in the middle of some really harsh country.
Peter.
kstlfido said:
Hi Kent,
A good driver, well made, should match well with your cabinet. Can work in 35L@35Hz and can go down 32Hz@-3dB. Have a clean sound, should have a rigid box. Note 35 Liters ~ 1.25 cubic feet, the port should be 3inch diameter and 10.3inch long
Used in the French Elipson sphere
you can find a crossover for this driver at Madisound, Crossover
and here an other design from Speaker builder
Have fun
Woohoo, those Seleniums look good for the job and the el cheapo dollars, not really full range though.
The Seas are a "nice" driver for domestic mid-fi, not really much good for playing an outdoor venue. They tend to get rather hot when they're hammered
I've got a pair here with separated coils, and that was with 80 Watts of unclipped input (good party but)
The Seas are a "nice" driver for domestic mid-fi, not really much good for playing an outdoor venue. They tend to get rather hot when they're hammered
I've got a pair here with separated coils, and that was with 80 Watts of unclipped input (good party but)
Ok a PA driver is needed Better choice for hard conditions. Coaxial SEAS for home ...
See here Eminence Beta-8CX 8" Coaxial Driver
Also add The tweeter
and the crossover @3.5kHz and a L-PAD for the tweeter.
or a crossover with L-PAD @3.5kHz
Keep your box, a little too large but don't worry.
Better choice for hard conditions. Coaxial SEAS for home ... See here Eminence Beta-8CX 8" Coaxial Driver
Also add The tweeter
and the crossover @3.5kHz and a L-PAD for the tweeter.
or a crossover with L-PAD @3.5kHz
Keep your box, a little too large but don't worry.
A pro driver is going to stand a LOT more abuse than any hi-fi job, for sure. But it may be hard to get low bass out of the pro 8" in 1.25 feet.
Just remember when you model what the driver will do in that volume - a 100Hz peak will give you that classic boom-boom sound that so many cheap systems have. It's what most people like.
A peak at around 75Hz gives a much warmer sound (to my ear). You don't have to go down into the basement to get happy bass.
You probably know what already, just throwing it out there.
OK Peter, I'll stop by for some brews and the barbie when I finally make that looong drive from Peth to Broome. Some day......
Just remember when you model what the driver will do in that volume - a 100Hz peak will give you that classic boom-boom sound that so many cheap systems have. It's what most people like.
A peak at around 75Hz gives a much warmer sound (to my ear). You don't have to go down into the basement to get happy bass.
You probably know what already, just throwing it out there.
OK Peter, I'll stop by for some brews and the barbie when I finally make that looong drive from Peth to Broome. Some day......
I just had a quick look at the Beta 8CX modeled in unibox.
A sealed box is not the way to go - but...
In a ported box of 1.25' (35.5L) it could work very well.
Tune the port to 70Hz and you have a nice little peak at 75Hz.
Tune it to 90Hz and you get a "boom bump" of almost 6 dB at 95Hz.
Or tune it in between for whatever flavor you like the best. =)
Decent effiency, too. Like 94dB/W. That sure helps.
A sealed box is not the way to go - but...
In a ported box of 1.25' (35.5L) it could work very well.
Tune the port to 70Hz and you have a nice little peak at 75Hz.
Tune it to 90Hz and you get a "boom bump" of almost 6 dB at 95Hz.
Or tune it in between for whatever flavor you like the best. =)
Decent effiency, too. Like 94dB/W. That sure helps.
FYI I thought to put this $47 selenium out there before > Sort of more of Pro midbass for closed box, IB or OB tho. It's really eff. and rugged. Fs seems too high, but may give useful pseudo bass with harmonics by tuning for extra low EBS since Vas is less than 0.4 Cu Ft. But if some way you could shoehorn a ten incher then you really be in the business.
8in http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-424&vReviewShow=1&vReviewRand=757360
10in http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-332
EDIT>possible tweeter for DIY horn
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-235
8in http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-424&vReviewShow=1&vReviewRand=757360
10in http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-332
EDIT>possible tweeter for DIY horn
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-235
It's true, but this looks like the best you are going to do for your application.
Don't know about the Eminence, but the Selenium drivers have a progressive spider that keeps you out of trouble. Hard to hurt them. And you aren't going to be throwing 250 W at them, so no overheating problems.
You may end up tossing away a few dB of mid for BSC so that the tonal balance is right. Outside, you have no room gain to help you in the bass. By tuning up higher (shorter port) you gain some thump and may not run into so much x-max trouble. Something to play with.....
Don't know about the Eminence, but the Selenium drivers have a progressive spider that keeps you out of trouble. Hard to hurt them. And you aren't going to be throwing 250 W at them, so no overheating problems.
You may end up tossing away a few dB of mid for BSC so that the tonal balance is right. Outside, you have no room gain to help you in the bass. By tuning up higher (shorter port) you gain some thump and may not run into so much x-max trouble. Something to play with.....
Great info- I need to digest! My knowledge is spotty at best so sorry if I don't catch everything....
Yes, my main concern for these is durability.
So the list so far-
Pioneer B20FU20-51D- mainly because of the clear cone. But as sreten pointed out- with no freq. response; it's a stab in the dark....
Pioneer B20FU20-51FW- to go the whizzer route. Thanks musgofasa!
These Pioneer's have foam surrounds. I fear they will not hold up well in a hot sunny desert environment very well. Any experiences?
Audax AP210Z0- looks good- seems to go up fairly high for a woofer. Thanks sreten, and for the tweet suggestion!
Hi-Vi B3N 3" Round Full Range, Copper Color Cone- This could be fun! I could use 3 (or more) and make a 'bug eye' looking array. They are pretty flat up to ~6k. And the color fits well! Thanks Tosh!
SEAS Prestige T18REX/XFC- has the clear cone and a coaxial, but as Tosh and exurbia pointed out, would not hold up well in the desert....
B&C 8cx21- nice rugged dual concentric, but are pricey... Thx exurbia, and for your hot environment experience!
Eminence Beta-8CX- this looks promising. Another nice rugged dual concentric. Looks like a paper cone- should be OK- not too much rain in the desert in August! Thanks jerome69 and panomaniac!
Selenium 8W4P- another possible candidate but haven't found it's data (yet). Thanks infinia! I could possibly fit 10"; the hole is 9.5" (the original 8" drivers were mounted on a sub-plate).
I'm leaning to the Eminence or the B&C for a concentric solution; or the Selenium or Audax for the woofer route. Need to find some tweets that will work well and integrate well. The 3" copper Hi-Vi's will also be explored.
Attached pic of cabinet inside with lovely 1970s carpet deadening!
Thanks again chaps.
-Kent
Yes, my main concern for these is durability.
So the list so far-
Pioneer B20FU20-51D- mainly because of the clear cone. But as sreten pointed out- with no freq. response; it's a stab in the dark....
Pioneer B20FU20-51FW- to go the whizzer route. Thanks musgofasa!
These Pioneer's have foam surrounds. I fear they will not hold up well in a hot sunny desert environment very well. Any experiences?
Audax AP210Z0- looks good- seems to go up fairly high for a woofer. Thanks sreten, and for the tweet suggestion!
Hi-Vi B3N 3" Round Full Range, Copper Color Cone- This could be fun! I could use 3 (or more) and make a 'bug eye' looking array. They are pretty flat up to ~6k. And the color fits well! Thanks Tosh!
SEAS Prestige T18REX/XFC- has the clear cone and a coaxial, but as Tosh and exurbia pointed out, would not hold up well in the desert....
B&C 8cx21- nice rugged dual concentric, but are pricey... Thx exurbia, and for your hot environment experience!
Eminence Beta-8CX- this looks promising. Another nice rugged dual concentric. Looks like a paper cone- should be OK- not too much rain in the desert in August! Thanks jerome69 and panomaniac!
Selenium 8W4P- another possible candidate but haven't found it's data (yet). Thanks infinia! I could possibly fit 10"; the hole is 9.5" (the original 8" drivers were mounted on a sub-plate).
I'm leaning to the Eminence or the B&C for a concentric solution; or the Selenium or Audax for the woofer route. Need to find some tweets that will work well and integrate well. The 3" copper Hi-Vi's will also be explored.
Attached pic of cabinet inside with lovely 1970s carpet deadening!
Thanks again chaps.
-Kent
Attachments
kstlfido said:
Hi Kent
wanted to find out any progress yet?
data sheet http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-332.pdf
should work it needs a 9 inch hole minimum.
Hi infinia-
No progress yet. I have been distracted with work and building the Salas RIAA and enjoying my vinyl again!
I am still attracted to the aesthetic of the back-lit clear cone idea, but haven't found any drivers of that type with the durability required.
That Selenium 10" is a tough unit, thanks for that! The hole is 240mm, so it will fit. I will need to figure out a mounting flange ring to bolt it to; hopefully do it in brass...
Thanks- this will get me kick-started to working on this again..only 8 months till I'm on the playa!
-Kent
No progress yet. I have been distracted with work and building the Salas RIAA and enjoying my vinyl again!
I am still attracted to the aesthetic of the back-lit clear cone idea, but haven't found any drivers of that type with the durability required.
That Selenium 10" is a tough unit, thanks for that! The hole is 240mm, so it will fit. I will need to figure out a mounting flange ring to bolt it to; hopefully do it in brass...
Thanks- this will get me kick-started to working on this again..only 8 months till I'm on the playa!
-Kent
It's been a while, time for an update.
I am heating up my project to get these speakers done by August.
A 10" driver will fit the opening. I need to make a new frame for the front anyway. something out of hardwood or better yet, brass.
So now I need to choose driver(s). The easiest would be to use the Eminence Beta 10CX coaxial and be done with it.
But I've been interested in doing a 2, or 3 way, with 3 little satellite tweeters around the woofer. Why? Just because it would look neat!
I am trying to model different mounting ideas, see attachment. Also, I've been hitting the local scrap yards for neat brass/copper. A mid could be held in front of the woofer. Or I can just make a cool looking grill.
So, will the 10" Eminence work in this 1.2 cubic foot cabinet?
Cheers- Kent
I am heating up my project to get these speakers done by August.
A 10" driver will fit the opening. I need to make a new frame for the front anyway. something out of hardwood or better yet, brass.
So now I need to choose driver(s). The easiest would be to use the Eminence Beta 10CX coaxial and be done with it.
But I've been interested in doing a 2, or 3 way, with 3 little satellite tweeters around the woofer. Why? Just because it would look neat!
I am trying to model different mounting ideas, see attachment. Also, I've been hitting the local scrap yards for neat brass/copper. A mid could be held in front of the woofer. Or I can just make a cool looking grill.
So, will the 10" Eminence work in this 1.2 cubic foot cabinet?
Cheers- Kent
Attachments
Hi folks- bump!
I know it's been a while. 2 months till I need to have these done and leave to the playa....
Infinia- The cabinet CAN accommodate a 10" driver. The Eminence Beta 10CX coaxial (with tweet installed) would be an easy solution. Anyone had good experience with these?
Could I ask a favor please?
Panomaniac- could you model the Eminence in this cabinet? It looks like it won't go down as low as the Selenium, but maybe it will do. The cabinet is appx 1.2 cu. ft.
Thank you for your help!
-Kent
I know it's been a while. 2 months till I need to have these done and leave to the playa....
Infinia- The cabinet CAN accommodate a 10" driver. The Eminence Beta 10CX coaxial (with tweet installed) would be an easy solution. Anyone had good experience with these?
Could I ask a favor please?
Panomaniac- could you model the Eminence in this cabinet? It looks like it won't go down as low as the Selenium, but maybe it will do. The cabinet is appx 1.2 cu. ft.
Thank you for your help!
-Kent
kstlfido said:
I knew that it would
dont forget the apt tweeter is purchased seperate ( not sure but I think it might be better using a different tweeter if possible)
http://www.usspeaker.com/BETA10CX-1.htm
Re Unibox modeling you have access to MS Excel don't you?
Re Crossover> FWIW i've modeled this crossover before and with moving the freq up a bit more s/b great compared with most stock Eminance products. From the Econowave threads over at audiokarma.org
Attachments
PHL speakers? PRO, coax, durable...
I just wanted to put in my 2 cents!
PHL makes some very unique speakers. They have PRO efficiency. They are extremely durable. They actually list some models for occasional outdoor use and other models for PERMANENT outdoor use. I guess they are practically water proof!
Some are COAX models that you add a compression driver to the middle of.
The sound quality is supposed to be excellent. They have been used for years in Home audio ultimate-type systems as midranges.
There are only 3 problems:
1) this thread is old so you already decided on something else?
2) they are expensive. at least $170 or more, each driver.
3) they are hard to find. you can see a couple models at E-speakers, Zalytron, and others, but I don't know where to find the entire product line.
Good luck! Your copper cabinets look pretty cool, I wouldn't want to settle for some junky parts to go in them! :^)
I just wanted to put in my 2 cents!
PHL makes some very unique speakers. They have PRO efficiency. They are extremely durable. They actually list some models for occasional outdoor use and other models for PERMANENT outdoor use. I guess they are practically water proof!
Some are COAX models that you add a compression driver to the middle of.
The sound quality is supposed to be excellent. They have been used for years in Home audio ultimate-type systems as midranges.
There are only 3 problems:
1) this thread is old so you already decided on something else?
2) they are expensive. at least $170 or more, each driver.
3) they are hard to find. you can see a couple models at E-speakers, Zalytron, and others, but I don't know where to find the entire product line.
Good luck! Your copper cabinets look pretty cool, I wouldn't want to settle for some junky parts to go in them! :^)
rjp336-
No I haven't made any driver purchase yet. Those PHL look very nice indeed, they remind me of the B&C drivers. Yes, the price is up there. I think the Eminence drivers will get me there though. But I will research....
infinia- thanks, I just downloaded Unibox. It will take some time to figure it out. I'm pretty green to this- plus I finally got work in the studio after 4 months of nothing. Have to do work when it comes in!
And, thanks for the x-over design! I'll check out that econowave thread.
-Kent
No I haven't made any driver purchase yet. Those PHL look very nice indeed, they remind me of the B&C drivers. Yes, the price is up there. I think the Eminence drivers will get me there though. But I will research....
infinia- thanks, I just downloaded Unibox. It will take some time to figure it out. I'm pretty green to this- plus I finally got work in the studio after 4 months of nothing. Have to do work when it comes in!
And, thanks for the x-over design! I'll check out that econowave thread.
-Kent
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