I once setup two FH1 with attendant HF horns on top of two 18" "R-J" vented cabinets, and biamped the stack. I preferred one thrown away Karlson 15 to that stack - should have gone with 18" K's for fun although its tough to get relatively high BL low mass 18s for Karlson duty.
Could a mini and partial horn system - say B36 scaled to 10" speaker and a small direct radiator (or BP) sub get some of the big horn sound in a small package for a living room?
Could a mini and partial horn system - say B36 scaled to 10" speaker and a small direct radiator (or BP) sub get some of the big horn sound in a small package for a living room?
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I do not know, but from my limited experience, for home listening levels I could live with an EQ boost for the FH1s. That actually sounded better than the setup above. Still quite large.
However, after rebuild, the magic is back even without tweeters, EQ'd 2445 sounds pretty ok when not just under ceiling. I wonder if putting the FH1 on side makes any difference - if yes, then definitely for better.
Still, the tweeters will be added when I buy some better than the D210Ti I have now. The 2445 sounds the same or better, so it is not worth using them for now.
However, after rebuild, the magic is back even without tweeters, EQ'd 2445 sounds pretty ok when not just under ceiling. I wonder if putting the FH1 on side makes any difference - if yes, then definitely for better.
Still, the tweeters will be added when I buy some better than the D210Ti I have now. The 2445 sounds the same or better, so it is not worth using them for now.
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Ideally a 2385 with properly flared 1" throat adapter or make do with a 2385 scaled to a 1" driver or with digital delay, suspend a little Fostex or similar super tweeter horn inside the 2385.
Re the bass bins, its HF will be coming out at an upward angle with the current layout, so may/not be better rotated and/or tilted and/or toe'd in/out depending on XO point/slope listening distance, etc.. Notice the dashed line: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d5/8c/ab/d58cab4f766787d84589f5bc60b5b86f.jpg
GM
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Hmm, between horn boosting, 2385 response, etc., seems like not boosting so much, shelving the 2385's mid band and XOing to a super tweeter around 4 kHz where the 2385 has petered out would be better overall and while still technically offset too far away, may allow mounting it suspended from the mid bass horn's lip.
Some folks do it and seem happy with the results if the mid horn is over-sized, but otherwise, messing with the critical phone BW [~250-3500 Hz] kind of defeats the main point of 'HIFI'.
GM
Some folks do it and seem happy with the results if the mid horn is over-sized, but otherwise, messing with the critical phone BW [~250-3500 Hz] kind of defeats the main point of 'HIFI'.
GM
Some member mentioned in another thread (cannot find it now) that these are 2380 clones. And dirt cheap. So I will also buy 4 of these and two throat adapters. That will let me try a 1" CD as suggested above.
ARB2" - Bsacoustic.com
ARB2" - Bsacoustic.com
Just a small update. I bought a second t.racks DSP mini, did a quick and dirty time alignment and reduced the HF boost. It now sounds really good, but I am still missing some high end, the 2445s really do not sound that well in the upper octave. I have the DSPs set up for delayed ambient channel, so I am really curious how that will sound like.
Hello Pelanj
Just a thought but you might want to set-up the 2445's as if they were being used in a passive network, You can greatly reduce the drive level in that last octave. You sacrifice efficiency but since you are using DSP and probably running active it just won't matter all that much.
Rob
Just a thought but you might want to set-up the 2445's as if they were being used in a passive network, You can greatly reduce the drive level in that last octave. You sacrifice efficiency but since you are using DSP and probably running active it just won't matter all that much.
Rob
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Hi Rob, could you please tell me more details about that? I am using the DSP as constant directivity boost and a little extra for the high end. If I equalize it to flat, it starts sounding harsh. That is why I plan to go 4 way.
As it is now, it is all active.
By the way, adding the ambience channel is promising, I nees to listen more to it.
As it is now, it is all active.
By the way, adding the ambience channel is promising, I nees to listen more to it.
Here are two charts. The one without the HF boost is also time aligned by the DSP. As it is now, without the boost it sounds less harsh even without time alignment. I guess my hearing is not the best any more in the HF as I am not really missing much, but only a little in the high end.
Edit: This is measurement in room, distance ca 2,5 m and 30 deg off axis.
Edit: This is measurement in room, distance ca 2,5 m and 30 deg off axis.
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If you do a passive crossover for a CD horn its basically all attenuation. What I am saying is give up some sensitivity by attenuating the 1-5K and use that to flatten the response. I will post a voltage drive to explain it better. If you look at the Voltage driv. it is all attenuation below reference level.
When you boost the high end it's a worst case scenario because you are adding power where the distortion is already high to begin with. You want to use less power there if you can to keep the distortion levels at a reasonable level
Rob
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I will try to replicate the curve by DSP. In theory, there is no difference between DSP EQ and passive EQ, exactly the same power goes to the driver as long as the amplifier/DSP is not clipping.
Freddi, I made these ground level measurements. Single horn and a pair, the microphone at the horn mouth in the middle. I would say, not too bad The horns are low-passed at 120 Hz.
Freddi, I made these ground level measurements. Single horn and a pair, the microphone at the horn mouth in the middle. I would say, not too bad
The horns are low-passed at 120 Hz.Attachments
Wow, 4 way is great. I just listened to the temporary setup. It needs optimization, but it sounds really great. I think the midbass horns made the largest difference, now it really kicks. Dynamic and low distortion sound even with PA cabinets and horns. The setup is by no means living room friendly, it is huge and ugly, zero WAF for sure. That is not a problem for me, since I have no place for these in my living room, I have it in my cellar workshop and party room.