Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Ultimate Open Baffle Gallery
Ultimate Open Baffle Gallery
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd November 2019, 11:17 PM   #2771
MITsound is offline MITsound  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
MITsound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Burnaby
Ultimate Open Baffle Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Bernie actually made them. Solid Mahogany IIRC. A hifi stand in the same too. Drivers EnABLed, wired with solid core cry-treated 24g, with WBT next gen banana plugs.

Click the image to open in full size.

I really like the A12pw. And i much prefer the A10p to the A12p. We have a floor-stander & the sand-mount version pictured for these. The A12pw is killer in a Woden ML-TL. We use a pair with A7.3eN in a WAW. I have no reason to dipubt the sims that suggest response to the mid 20s.

Top end really starts to disappear above about 10k. It makes XO very flexble if you decide to use them in a 2-way. We XO the WAW at 250 Hz, Scott to the A7p at about 1kHz (example below build by Mario shown at the latest BAF — i saw a better pic, ut this is what i could find quickly), or to a dome or ribbon between 2-5kHz.

Ultimate Open Baffle Gallery-mario-a12pw-apen-jpg

dave
The standpoint ones look similar to my friend's.
Martin's are solid walnut, I think, and also beautiful in fit and finish.
__________________
"Aim above morality. Be not simply good; be good for something." HD Thoreau
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2019, 11:19 PM   #2772
warrjon is offline warrjon  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Terang Vic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Campbell View Post
The W frame gets you to how low a frequency? 30 hz or lower?

What freq/slope do you cross to FR?
I'm not sure how low they go I have not measured that. I only measured at the XO point from 100 to 5kHz. XO is set at 235Hz 24dB LW. I used Rod Elliot's kit P09 for the XO.

They sounded so good I moved on to get my analog rig working as it should, when I'm done with this I will go back and measure and tweak the speakers.


.
__________________
SP10, ...... EPA-100, ......EPC-205CII, .....BHL phono,.........Pass B1,
MODULUS 86 power amps x4,.............Active line level OX,......... bi-amped OB speakers with Mark Audio Alpair 12P
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2019, 11:22 PM   #2773
planet10 is online now planet10  Canada
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Ultimate Open Baffle Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by MITsound View Post
The standpoint ones look similar to my friend's.
Martin's are solid walnut, I think, and also beautiful in fit and finish.
Its the same guy. Only 1 pair of these standmounts have been built. I guess it was Bernie’s FHXL build fron Steve that were Mahogany.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2019, 11:29 PM   #2774
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
scottjoplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Penrhyndeudraeth
It's the diffractions of the rectangular baffle that are smoothing the response Frequently Asked Questions I wonder how much smearing of the image this causes Diffraction from baffle edges
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2019, 11:48 PM   #2775
warrjon is offline warrjon  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Terang Vic
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
It's the diffractions of the rectangular baffle that are smoothing the response Frequently Asked Questions I wonder how much smearing of the image this causes Diffraction from baffle edges

In my experience quite a bit as does baffle vibration.

The additional detail adding baffle damping is very audible. as is de-coupling the FR from the woofer vibration. Each step that added detail was kept. You can see the table over the woofer this made no audible difference so was discarded.

Here are a few iterations of my development. Pic 2 and 3 should be reversed. Pic 3 was the woofer box from Pic 1 cut down same W300 woofers.


Pic 4 sounded very shouty and it was the raised edges of the trim around the baffle causing the midrange peak. Pic 5 is the same baffle cut and chamfered 45deg, sounded much smoother.

.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0945.jpg (381.1 KB, 317 views)
File Type: jpg P_20170702_143738.jpg (858.8 KB, 311 views)
File Type: jpg P_20170717_112237.jpg (919.6 KB, 310 views)
File Type: jpg P_20170731_165722.jpg (606.6 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg P_20190401_085132.jpg (240.5 KB, 137 views)
__________________
SP10, ...... EPA-100, ......EPC-205CII, .....BHL phono,.........Pass B1,
MODULUS 86 power amps x4,.............Active line level OX,......... bi-amped OB speakers with Mark Audio Alpair 12P

Last edited by warrjon; 22nd November 2019 at 11:53 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 12:03 AM   #2776
MITsound is offline MITsound  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
MITsound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Burnaby
Ultimate Open Baffle Gallery
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrjon View Post
In my experience quite a bit as does baffle vibration.

The additional detail adding baffle damping is very audible. as is de-coupling the FR from the woofer vibration. Each step that added detail was kept. You can see the table over the woofer this made no audible difference so was discarded.

Here are a few iterations of my development. Pic 2 and 3 should be reversed. Pic 3 was the woofer box from Pic 1 cut down same W300 woofers.


Pic 4 sounded very shouty and it was the raised edges of the trim around the baffle causing the midrange peak. Pic 5 is the same baffle cut and chamfered 45deg, sounded much smoother.

.
Do you prefer chamfering over a roundover?
__________________
"Aim above morality. Be not simply good; be good for something." HD Thoreau
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 12:06 AM   #2777
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
scottjoplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Penrhyndeudraeth
I think maybe you should use felt on the rear of the baffle too, for symmetry
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 12:18 AM   #2778
warrjon is offline warrjon  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Terang Vic
I prefer the felt over chamfering, never tried the roundover, problem is the chamfer needs to be a large radius to work effectively, my baffle is only 12mm thick, this is why I used felt. I also had a copy of the BBC design document for the LS3/5A (which I can not find ATM) and their use of felt was preferred over other methods of controlling these artifacts.


I tried felt on the rear and could not hear/measure any difference so I removed it. I do have sound absorbing panels behind and inside the speakers, these make an audible difference to the depth of the image. I suspect reflections from the TV are the issue there.
__________________
SP10, ...... EPA-100, ......EPC-205CII, .....BHL phono,.........Pass B1,
MODULUS 86 power amps x4,.............Active line level OX,......... bi-amped OB speakers with Mark Audio Alpair 12P

Last edited by warrjon; 23rd November 2019 at 12:22 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 10:18 AM   #2779
Peter Campbell is offline Peter Campbell  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Ottawa
Your mounting method has me thinking, vibrations on the PAP frame are quite large. This is why it’s good to join here, thanks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th November 2019, 10:23 AM   #2780
warrjon is offline warrjon  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Terang Vic
I've spent 10 years refining this design, reducing the vibration of the baffle has IME far more effect than isolating the FR from the woofer. Although the W frame reduced vibration and a forward mount woofer may introduce IMD.

I made the magnet mount from 12x3mm aluminium bar. To form it I used 18mm plywood circle cut the same diameter as the magnet.

First I bent the mounting flanges at 90deg, this needs to be accurate or the FR will sit at an angle.
__________________
SP10, ...... EPA-100, ......EPC-205CII, .....BHL phono,.........Pass B1,
MODULUS 86 power amps x4,.............Active line level OX,......... bi-amped OB speakers with Mark Audio Alpair 12P
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Ultimate Open Baffle GalleryHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Open baffle or no baffle for nearfield full range monitors? mdevelde Full Range 19 18th November 2016 05:26 PM
Ultimate Open baffle for tannoy red 15 inch murphythecat8 Full Range 20 30th January 2013 01:29 AM
Upwards aligned open baffle? ( pop box meets open baffle ) OllBoll Full Range 3 28th March 2011 02:00 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:15 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki