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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 4th September 2019, 10:32 PM   #2691
Mattes is offline Mattes  Germany
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Dear All,


many thanks for the kind words! It was a lot of work...
Pico, your mention of rubberbands and exchanging body fluids does strange things with my phantasy...
In order to overcome this, just let me mention that the wires are from dyneema, high SWL and no stretch nor creeping. The arrangement weighs around 54 kg, and the adjustment of the wires had to be pretty precise.
But, as this is a gallery, I could open a thread with more details behind these speakers, should there be any interest.


All the best


Mattes
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Old 5th September 2019, 12:56 AM   #2692
MITsound is offline MITsound  Canada
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I assume the sheer mass eliminates noticeable swinging, when playing bass heavy recordings.
Other than a very high coolness factor, is there a benefit to doing the tweeters like this, too?
I ask, because I've done a no baffle with horns and 15" woofers.
I'm curious to try a mod suspending just the woofers, and fixing the horns to a frame/ speaker mast.
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Last edited by planet10; 5th September 2019 at 11:15 PM. Reason: remove unnecessary quote
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Old 5th September 2019, 08:43 AM   #2693
Diega is offline Diega
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Default Amazing

very amazing it is a work of art
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Old 5th September 2019, 10:40 PM   #2694
Mattes is offline Mattes  Germany
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Hi MIT,

that´s one point where I might not be 100 % with Michael, who has, by the way, a nice theory why that works. Without beeing in contrary to his approaches, I at one point decided to add a 22kg weight to the already 20 kg (with the double magnet) AE 18, this is the polished stainless steel part at the rear of the magnet. This made an astonishingly large difference, as the relation of masses has doubled.
Free swinging bass driver is a very interesting approach to try out, but nude driver simly produced not enough SPL for me, hence the "minimum" baffle (OK... it´s 93 cm largest diametre...). The baffle is decoupled from the driver with sorbothane, and material and 3-dimensional form was choosen to minimise all baffle effects. I have not sincerely measured it, but the difference was more than 10 dB in the lower registers, IIRC.
But why let only the bass driver swing? I think advantages are also to be gained with a "full swing".

The supertweeters are just there to correct the power response a little bit. The Fertin has - with correction - no problems to go to 16-18 kHz on axis, but of course not from behind. This is partly corrected by the wide dispersion rear tweeter (starting around 6 kHz), and position and upwards angle seemed to correspond best with my room and speaker position. These are easy experiments - the supertweeter was by far one of the cheapest elements in the design. First it was just incorporated to find out if it´s worth going in that direction, but then it simply stayed...

Looking forward to hear of your free-swinging impressions!

All the best


Mattes
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Old 6th September 2019, 01:26 AM   #2695
gadut is online now gadut  Indonesia
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Mattes

that's original, really impressive. who would have thought to combine flower with loudspeaker

my on progress OB, 4 way active dsp, i also had an idea on less vibration on the fullrange but not string, just separate the baffle

my design is not original, OB fans should have nown where i got te inspiration from, but i adopted the shape to my local culture
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Old 6th September 2019, 01:54 AM   #2696
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattes View Post
Thought I´ll show you some photos therefore. This installation is a free-swinging OB with fieldcoil widerange driver (Fertinacoustics 21M8EX), bass driver (AE Dipole 18 with double magnet) and ambient supertweeter (Peerless OT 19).

Mattes
-yes, this gets the oh-so-rare emoji:



..even more-so with this information:

Best full-range drivers for sealed enclosure (Voxativ, AER, Lowther, Feastrex, etc)
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Old 6th September 2019, 10:48 PM   #2697
Mattes is offline Mattes  Germany
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Hi,

again, thanks to you all for the kind words.

Gadut, separation of baffles is a good thing. I did it before the full swing for evaluation, let´s see if I have some photos here... ok, this was a prototype for shape and separation trials, by that time with a TB 1808 (pretty good for the money). Separation was done with sorbothane pads. Another possibility is to fully disconnect the baffle from the drivers, given driver are magnet mounted on a backbone. A gap of a millimetre doesn´t do anything evil, the impact is very small. Also in the flower pictures you´ll see the gap between the suspensionless FERTIN and the baffle of about 1 mm.

Scott, thanks for linking that description of the FERTIN and your kind words. Sadly, that thread is now dead since a long time, never heard anything again from Dan´s experiments. I still stand to my words - the FERTIN 21M8EX is difficult to tame (look at the filter below...), very expensive, critical to anything upstream... but I still like it best. For a lot less money, an EMS 21LBII brings you almost there...

All the best

Mattes
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Old 6th September 2019, 11:28 PM   #2698
carlthess40 is offline carlthess40  United States
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What’s a good program for doing crossovers for a OB speaker using a single 12” or 15” driver?
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Old 7th September 2019, 01:50 AM   #2699
adason is offline adason  United States
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That's a lot of crossover. Active and biamplification would be my choice.
Otherwise great looking speakers, congrats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattes View Post
Hi,

again, thanks to you all for the kind words.

Gadut, separation of baffles is a good thing. I did it before the full swing for evaluation, let´s see if I have some photos here... ok, this was a prototype for shape and separation trials, by that time with a TB 1808 (pretty good for the money). Separation was done with sorbothane pads. Another possibility is to fully disconnect the baffle from the drivers, given driver are magnet mounted on a backbone. A gap of a millimetre doesn´t do anything evil, the impact is very small. Also in the flower pictures you´ll see the gap between the suspensionless FERTIN and the baffle of about 1 mm.

Scott, thanks for linking that description of the FERTIN and your kind words. Sadly, that thread is now dead since a long time, never heard anything again from Dan´s experiments. I still stand to my words - the FERTIN 21M8EX is difficult to tame (look at the filter below...), very expensive, critical to anything upstream... but I still like it best. For a lot less money, an EMS 21LBII brings you almost there...

All the best

Mattes
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Old 7th September 2019, 12:08 PM   #2700
perceval is offline perceval  Taiwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlthess40 View Post
What’s a good program for doing crossovers for a OB speaker using a single 12” or 15” driver?
Found right here at DIYAudio.

Look for XSim. Easy to understand and just by playing with parts, it will teach you how things work.
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