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What causes listening "fatigue"?
What causes listening "fatigue"?
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Old 5th August 2013, 07:45 AM   #631
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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What causes listening "fatigue"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Of course. No hi end speaker will sound good with a single ended 2N3055.
How so? IME changing to a better device and configuration can peel a layer off what you're hearing. Doing this has never caused me to want to stop looking for problems, and hasn't been better than a welcome improvement.

Last edited by AllenB; 5th August 2013 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 5th August 2013, 08:19 AM   #632
peteleoni is offline peteleoni  United States
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A lot of us have discovered that when people eschew B.S. these days they are considered either eccentric or dangerous. Be aware that the real answer to even this "audio" question requires that objective truth be layed bare. This will not be popular. I suggest that everyone downloads all of the (incredibly free!) back issues of " "The Audio Critic" long live the king of no bullschitt, the ninety year old and still productive Peter Aczel, purveyor of the unpopular truth.
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Old 5th August 2013, 08:31 AM   #633
peteleoni is offline peteleoni  United States
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In other words the answer to this question is above many times over. The key to knowing what "is" is already inside your head. A clue....Regarding amplification: "Real" numbers do not lie. Period.
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Old 5th August 2013, 09:16 AM   #634
Greebster is offline Greebster  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteleoni View Post
It is pretty hard for a driver to embellish a transient. Pretty easy to f it up. Think about it.
Guaranteed

Quote:
Originally Posted by peteleoni View Post
Efficient flat on axis ( at least) low distortion speakers at "your" spl, plus powerful low distortion amps will just about guarantee no "fatigue" a shotgun approach.
But will leave you with wanting more 'space' if done shotgun.
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Old 5th August 2013, 09:36 AM   #635
peteleoni is offline peteleoni  United States
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[QUOTE=Greebster;3585298]Guaranteed



But will leave you with wanting more 'space' if done shotgun.[/QUOT

Not that shotgun, the "hit everything that actually counts" approach. The "space" thing is more room dependent anyway somewhat our of the scope here.
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Old 5th August 2013, 12:29 PM   #636
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenB View Post
How so? IME changing to a better device and configuration can peel a layer off what you're hearing. Doing this has never caused me to want to stop looking for problems, and hasn't been better than a welcome improvement.
It was meant to say that (1) even the best speaker cannot sound good with terrible amp, which is obvious but (2) we cannot use that fact to say that amp is the most important (3) there must be a minimum requirement for an amp to be called mediocre.
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Old 5th August 2013, 12:33 PM   #637
Max Headroom is offline Max Headroom  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteleoni View Post
It is pretty hard for a driver to embellish a transient. Pretty easy to f it up. Think about it.
I'm talking about amplifiers......speakers too now that I think about it.

Dan.
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Old 5th August 2013, 04:55 PM   #638
Greebster is offline Greebster  United States
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Originally Posted by badman View Post
You're ignoring the premise under contention that you and fas42 supported, instead talking about budget, how long you've been in the hobby, and other nonsense unrelated to the point under discussion. If it is not your contention that <100Hz is unnecessary for engaging, fatigue-free listening, then say so. Your personal history is irrelevant, I'm only addressing what you say here.
What is lacking does not cause fatigue, it may be irritating because we know the content exists, but non the less it's not fatiguing, simply missing. Perhaps you should go back and re read everything said in context to the discussion instead of nit picking everything on it's own, taking what is either directly stated or implied out of context.

Building experimental aircraft is another "hobby", one that if not spot on can and will kill you. I take what I do with the upmost scrutiny and dedication. When you have been employeed to do both of these being professional isn't kiddy science, it's an absolute requirement.
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Old 5th August 2013, 05:18 PM   #639
badman is offline badman  United States
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"What is lacking does not cause fatigue, it may be irritating because we know the content exists, but non the less it's not fatiguing, simply missing. Perhaps you should go back and re read everything said in context to the discussion instead of nit picking everything on it's own, taking what is either directly stated or implied out of context."

The point I'm discussing is that <100Hz content is necessary for comfortable long term listening, fatigue free. Without <100Hz content sound is "flat" as much venue information lies in the LF. You don't find listening to something that sounds flat and fake fatiguing? I find irritation of this sort fatiguing. How could something that is irritating NOT be fatiguing? Making your brain fill in extra info, making your brain listen "through" high distortion levels, all of those departures make listening a more tiring process. Do we really want to differentiate "tiring vs. fatiguing" "irritating vs fatiguing" etc? Is this a stupid semantic argument?

"Building experimental aircraft is another "hobby", one that if not spot on can and will kill you. I take what I do with the upmost scrutiny and dedication. When you have been employeed to do both of these being professional isn't kiddy science, it's an absolute requirement."

And that has nothing to do, again, with the discussion.
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Old 5th August 2013, 05:46 PM   #640
Greebster is offline Greebster  United States
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Everything stated was an effort to explain one specific point or another, of which you disregarded and only comment on as disingenuous, delusional and blatantly false once nitpicked. Forest from the trees my brother.

I don't require an audience, but if I am so far off the mark, why are you the only one to say so? There are far more knowledgeable people here that could easily rip me a new one if incorrect with detailed fact or even theory for that matter. Why haven't they? Where is your proof?

Heck I'll climb out on a limb here, I make many comments in support of and against this or that theory, use of, how to, et al. and am rarely corrected. Do I make mistakes? Heck ya, nobody "knows it all" and I'm here to learn what I may have missed, misconstrued in my mind etc and do it without hesitation. If wrong I truly want to know. But that means I want facts, the proof of and why I have it all wrong.

You've proved nothing but who'll be the next contestant on the Price is Right.
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