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What causes listening "fatigue"?
What causes listening "fatigue"?
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Old 17th September 2020, 06:39 PM   #1621
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigun View Post
I suspect it started off on the radio - compression was used to boost the volume of advertisements, same on the TV. It was about money, always was, always will be.
Turned out that radio stations hated that massively squashed stuff from the '90s and '00s because it did not leave them any scope to apply their own radio-specific compression.
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Old 17th September 2020, 07:15 PM   #1622
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Sure I know that the 1176 is a mono compressor but as I said above Chris Lord-Alge, the main war criminal in the Loudness Wars, uses probably 30 or more of those things ie he possibly compresses each track on the way into his 48 channel SSL with the onboard compressor, then treats each track individually with an 1176* each and compresses again with the bus compressor on the way to the stereo master.

While he has a plug in suite of compressors named after him he uses the analogue originals.
This kind of compression scheme has been standard for dance oriented pop production since 80's, but I agree that he is the one who sophisticated and utilized it for mainstream pop rock music. Since dance oriented music has become mainstream, mainstream engineers simply followed that trend. This trend is also related to Loudness War, indeed, but it's not his fault. This is not his invention.

I have never had a chance to hear his premastered mix, but it seems that his mix is not too much compressed, very average, in my impression. I have his Waves Plugin suites, and their presets look pretty aggressive at first, but I find they are very sane. Most of the mixing and mastering engineers including CLA are against loudness war, because it simply sounds bad.

Who really has pushed the loudness war is mostly ignorant record companies A&R and the artists who want to make their music sounds more competitive on the radio.
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Old 17th September 2020, 08:06 PM   #1623
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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What causes listening "fatigue"?
Let me try a bit of "arm-chair" perceptual guesswork. (OK, maybe a bit more of that considering my recent speculations.)

With music compressed and played loud, you have two vectors for fatigue. First, there is the loudness per se. Second, there is something that might be called "density". In classical music, there is an ebb and flow of almost all the music elements, with quiet parts between the loud parts. With the awful pulsating dance music, maybe no rest for your ears at any point before the blessed end.

B.
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Old 17th September 2020, 08:12 PM   #1624
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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Actually, the worst kind of music in this regard is rock with 8 distortion guitars playing at the same time. Pulsating means some space between them at least. LOL.
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Old 17th September 2020, 08:30 PM   #1625
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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Green Day, American Idiot, mixed by CLA, dynamic range average 5dB max 6dB min 4dB.

@bentoronto you're spot on there.
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Old 17th September 2020, 08:48 PM   #1626
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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I haven't heard them, but yeah, that's not healthy at all.
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Old 17th September 2020, 09:15 PM   #1627
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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I've been through a few of CLA mixes for other bands/artists and they are all pretty similar to this while the mastering engineer Ted Jensen around the same time did stuff with much greater dynamics. Ted also did the Eagles Hotel California, he's been at it for a while.


PS from wiki:
In 2008, loud mastering practices received mainstream media attention with the release of Metallica's Death Magnetic album. The CD version of the album has a high average loudness that pushes peaks beyond the point of digital clipping, causing distortion. This was reported by customers and music industry professionals, and covered in multiple international publications, including Rolling Stone,[11] The Wall Street Journal,[12] BBC Radio,[13] Wired,[14] and The Guardian.[15] Ted Jensen, a mastering engineer involved in the Death Magnetic recordings, criticized the approach employed during the production process.

Last edited by Charles Darwin; 17th September 2020 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 17th September 2020, 10:47 PM   #1628
Pharos is offline Pharos  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
Let me try a bit of "arm-chair" perceptual guesswork. (OK, maybe a bit more of that considering my recent speculations.)

With music compressed and played loud, you have two vectors for fatigue. First, there is the loudness per se. Second, there is something that might be called "density". In classical music, there is an ebb and flow of almost all the music elements, with quiet parts between the loud parts. With the awful pulsating dance music, maybe no rest for your ears at any point before the blessed end.

B.
I agree about density, and the comparison with classical music illustrates an important factor in musical expression; the use of dynamics as an expressive aspect.

Mozart stated that the silences are as important as the sounds.
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Old 17th September 2020, 10:51 PM   #1629
PSA78 is offline PSA78  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Green Day, American Idiot, mixed by CLA, dynamic range average 5dB max 6dB min 4dB.

@bentoronto you're spot on there.
I checked up the record I mentioned earlier that was produced to give more of a live sound and it was very high. Funny thing is that they made an edited version of one of the songs and it is completely different, sounds much more "radio friendly", it would be interesting to see how that one stacks up.
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Old 18th September 2020, 12:35 AM   #1630
plasnu is offline plasnu  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
I've been through a few of CLA mixes for other bands/artists and they are all pretty similar to this while the mastering engineer Ted Jensen around the same time did stuff with much greater dynamics. Ted also did the Eagles Hotel California, he's been at it for a while.
I have worked with Ted Jensen a few times. A trustful mastering guy, very professional.
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