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What causes listening "fatigue"?
What causes listening "fatigue"?
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Old 12th September 2020, 09:47 PM   #1531
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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What causes listening "fatigue"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
Are there any non-segmented ESLs
ESLs are cells and sometimes there are gradients across a cell. And sometimes an ESL speaker will have a bunch of cells in order to address freq band, directional/beaming issues, max loudness, etc.

Dayton-Wright ESL cells of all vintages handle nearly the full range and D-W speakers of some vintages the whole range without internal XO down to about 50 Hz.

Speaking for myself and possibly most ESL enthusiasts, we sometimes find it hard to take seriously some opinions on audio quality from people who use cone drivers. And let me add, every ESL enthusiast has heard lots of cone speakers but how many cone users have spent quality time with ESLs?
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Last edited by bentoronto; 12th September 2020 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 12th September 2020, 09:53 PM   #1532
bentoronto is offline bentoronto  Canada
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What causes listening "fatigue"?
So rare to hear much acknowledgement of human perception in these discussions.

In particular, the "burnt soup principle"* where perceptual judgements are dramatically stamped by what people have been exposed to in recent preceding times.

Many times I've visited friends living in awful "modern" hard-surfaced homes with hideous reverberation and they want to show-off their audio. Ditto for folks who boast about their local concert hall. Hint: that reverb may not be detectable in a real flat FR.

B.
* like telling your spouse ".... your soup tastes delicious, burnt just like my mother always did...."
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Old 12th September 2020, 10:24 PM   #1533
Pharos is offline Pharos  United Kingdom
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I was just thinking about that, in particular the way tinnitus is affected by stress, and it seems to follow that the sound of our equipment may also be sabotaged by a stressful mental state.


Certainly for me, what is annoying music is much worse when I am overwrought, and that is fatiguing.
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Old 12th September 2020, 10:49 PM   #1534
Nikolas Ojala is offline Nikolas Ojala  Finland
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Post What means "listening fatigue"

I tried to find the origin of "listening fatigue".

This is the earliest example I found:
Quote:
We say that if a system (which might cost up to a hundred pounds or more) gives listening fatigue and headache, then it is at fault.
Source:
Music on the move
Tape Recording Magazine
London, UK.
July 1970
Vol. 14, No. 7
p. 227

While that was a news article in a magazine, next example is purely an advertisement.

Quote:
A mid-range that seduces you with its smoothness. And an overall sound quality that finally puts an end to listening fatigue.
Source:
The new KLH Thirty-Two is the best speaker you can buy for the money.
Stereo Review
Philadelphia, PA.
March 1971
Vol. 26, No. 3
p. 29

Neither of those explained what listening fatigue might be.

Quote:
C.1.6 listening fatigue: Subjective sensation of annoyance and tiring that develops gradually after a long period of continuous listening. You want to turn it off. This effect may be due to spectral peaks, unstable imaging, or a number of other problems, alone or in combination. Listening fatigue is to be distinguished from immediate dislike of a sound system on first hearing. Listening fatigue due to the loudspeaker must also be differentiated from listening fatigue caused by the source material. A good loudspeaker system playing good recordings at a natural loudness will not cause fatigue for many hours, or ever.
Source:
AES20-1996
AES recommended practice for professional audio — Subjective evaluation of loudspeakers
1996 Audio Engineering Society
p. 18

Now that looks like a definition. I did not find any better.
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Old 12th September 2020, 10:54 PM   #1535
Charles Darwin is offline Charles Darwin  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post

Speaking for myself and possibly most ESL enthusiasts, we sometimes find it hard to take seriously some opinions on audio quality from people who use cone drivers. And let me add, every ESL enthusiast has heard lots of cone speakers but how many cone users have spent quality time with ESLs?
Shared a flat with a guy and his QUAD ESLs.

I found them excellent if used within their limitations but unfortunately my prefered music is well beyond those.
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Old 13th September 2020, 12:48 AM   #1536
diyiggy is offline diyiggy
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you could Try some DW...but it's gas, gas, gas..."


well how many time is lasting the sulfered dielectric gaz in some Dayton Wright ?


+1 for the room...
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Old 13th September 2020, 01:09 AM   #1537
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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What causes listening "fatigue"?
You’ll should test your ears with a tone test and see if you have frequencies that are irritating - I know that past abuse has left me with hyperacussis in the treble range and I can hear it with live instruments too which means even a perfect reproducing chain won’t eliminate it. Lower volumes do help, as has been pointed out. It’s not too bad for me unless I have a drive unit with cone resonance at the wrong places (e.g. Fostex FE127) and I have not noticed it getting worse with age but if that does happen I suspect a couple of notch filters in the preamp would fix things nicely.

I think there maybe frequencies which many of us are overly sensitive to, perhaps related to the shape of our ears. The attached was something I grabbed from somewhere in the ‘net about the best subjective FR based on human trials.
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File Type: png 79427759-0E17-4716-9AB3-69AE16DE1861.png (57.3 KB, 137 views)
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Last edited by Bigun; 13th September 2020 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 13th September 2020, 03:20 AM   #1538
bansuri is offline bansuri  Italy
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Our brain is constantly procassing the audio signal.

When you talk to a friend and walk from free space into a tunnel or church, his voice sounds the same, when a mike records it you cannot even recognize the voice.
The cocktail party effect is another example.
Cocktail party effect - Wikipedia

All disturbing noises are filtered out, the more filtering the more fatigue.

Room reflections are expected when we have seen the room, but they have to sound natural with normal spectral content. When they are muffled the brain cannot use them to create a 3-dimensional listening experience which is wonderful and relaxing.

My Pupazzo speakers with Manger Transducer in the blue sphere
Now the opposite happens, you cannot stop listening.
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Last edited by bansuri; 13th September 2020 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 13th September 2020, 03:33 AM   #1539
AudioLapDance is offline AudioLapDance  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentoronto View Post
So rare to hear much acknowledgement of human perception in these discussions.

In particular, the "burnt soup principle"* where perceptual ...
Yer over thinkin' it.

"Don't attribute to malevolence; what you mis-perceive as incompetence ... " or something like that ...





The problem with perception is always datalimiting; re: the nervous system's data can only take it so far [DEEP logical prob.; not bad data/theory] and so it has to ... to ..., ,... guess.

For example, our stereoscopic vision tricks us into thinking we see a 3 dimensional world ... but we don't. It does a bunch of math and logic on the 2d data from the 2 eyes and ... creates our experienced, 3d world.

Dude, just google it ...




Oh and we're narrative based creatures, because of our evolved language instinct and our canconcurrent development of our linguistic, day-to-day, neighbourhood, city, social, political, ..., , ... "worlds".

...so every audio gadget needs a good story ...


Last edited by AudioLapDance; 13th September 2020 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 13th September 2020, 07:55 AM   #1540
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Ears suffer from fatigue regardless of the sound source and need to be rested
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