Hi folks. Me again. I'll build (or try to..) the Autograph starting soon.. but since it's a "big" project, time consuming, I'm thinking about building a pair of Open Baffles to use my 15" Tannoy Golds right now, so I can have music in my workshop/studio..
I know very little about OBs. I've seen projects that are tall and slim, some quite lower in height and wider, with "wings".
Any suggestions about average size and shape these baffles should have? I'll use them in corners, in a room that's aprox 14' x 23'.
I'd be tempted into building something say, 4 feet high, 2 feet wide, with wings running from zero at the top, 2 feet deep at the bottom, going slightly inward (toward the back) to help it stand up.
Driver positioning: should it be centered on the baffle? or could it be a bit lower, say one foot from the floor with baffle tilted bacward a bit to aim at ear level?
Looking forward for your advices, and your experiments.
p.s. oh, I forgot. Should I lack bass.. I have an extra pair of Altec 15" that I could add..
I know very little about OBs. I've seen projects that are tall and slim, some quite lower in height and wider, with "wings".
Any suggestions about average size and shape these baffles should have? I'll use them in corners, in a room that's aprox 14' x 23'.
I'd be tempted into building something say, 4 feet high, 2 feet wide, with wings running from zero at the top, 2 feet deep at the bottom, going slightly inward (toward the back) to help it stand up.
Driver positioning: should it be centered on the baffle? or could it be a bit lower, say one foot from the floor with baffle tilted bacward a bit to aim at ear level?
Looking forward for your advices, and your experiments.
p.s. oh, I forgot. Should I lack bass.. I have an extra pair of Altec 15" that I could add..
Tannoys are very low Q, you're going to need those Altecs...
How about something like the Visaton 'NoBox' http://www.visaton.com/en/bauvorschlaege/2_wege/noboxbb/bauanleitung.html
using the Tannoys in place of the B200, and the Altecs as woofers?
How about something like the Visaton 'NoBox' http://www.visaton.com/en/bauvorschlaege/2_wege/noboxbb/bauanleitung.html
using the Tannoys in place of the B200, and the Altecs as woofers?
I agree. I have yet to see a Tannoy coax with a moderate-high Qts. Have there ever been any? I'd imagine that obtaining a satisfying amount of bass from those lowish Q drivers alone would be very difficult, if not impossible. I'd try to refrain from using any EQ on them, if at all possible. Since you already have the Altec woofers, use them. Any idea regarding the Q of those woofers? Regardless, I also agree that creating something similar to the Visation NoBox project should probably obtain good results. Place the Altec at the bottom close to the floor, and the Tannoy closer to the top near ear level, preferably a bit lower if the baffles are tilted..or whatever floats your boat. You should consider placing the Tannoy's just a tiny bit off center on the baffle too, as it can often help smooth out frequency response a little. As for exact dimensions, who knows? Especially without exact parameters. And even then, with just about any OB, I'd only use any modeling as a rough guideline or starting point. Find a way to experiment. Keep adding on to the baffle width and wings until you get the desired results. Then, put it together and build the final design.
Open Baffle Tannoy
Well, I might try just the same, so that I can use the Tannoys and have some music in the workshop.
I equally have HPD 385A Tannoys, but specs seem to be close to the Golds: both total Q are around .2 and .18, Qa 2 and 2.4, Qe .22 and .2
http://www.44bx.com/tannoy/Tannoy_ts.html#anchor45945
I'll have to have a closer look to these Altecs and let you know what they are.
Thanks.
More about it very soon.
Well, I might try just the same, so that I can use the Tannoys and have some music in the workshop.
I equally have HPD 385A Tannoys, but specs seem to be close to the Golds: both total Q are around .2 and .18, Qa 2 and 2.4, Qe .22 and .2
http://www.44bx.com/tannoy/Tannoy_ts.html#anchor45945
I'll have to have a closer look to these Altecs and let you know what they are.
Thanks.
More about it very soon.
The Altec Drivers
Hi guys,
I have the Altec for a while and didn't mind to verify what they are.. So, here it is. Model 421-8H. They are meant for musical intruments, so, I guess they're not very good for the open baffle? And they seem to go quite high..
Let me know what you think.
http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/Thiele-Small.html
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/altec/specs/components/421-8h.htm
Hi guys,
I have the Altec for a while and didn't mind to verify what they are.. So, here it is. Model 421-8H. They are meant for musical intruments, so, I guess they're not very good for the open baffle? And they seem to go quite high..
Let me know what you think.
http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/Thiele-Small.html
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/altec/specs/components/421-8h.htm
The Qts of .25 is probably a bit low for OB unless you use some LF equalization, but you won't know until you try them, in combination with the Tannoys maybe they'll be OK?
If you do something like the xover in this project
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110583&pagenumber=1
it's an easy way to find out, it'll just cost you one (large) inductor) ;-)
If you do something like the xover in this project
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110583&pagenumber=1
it's an easy way to find out, it'll just cost you one (large) inductor) ;-)
What are the desirable parameters then?
I thought to use them on open baffle to:
1- start somewhere to explore this concept
2- get acquainted again to my Tannoys, that I miss bitterly (I'm tired of dome tweeters..)
3- have music in my workshop
My intention was to try them at low volume, just for having music around.
What would be the "desirable" TS parameters for an open baffle? for having decent bass?
I thought to use them on open baffle to:
1- start somewhere to explore this concept
2- get acquainted again to my Tannoys, that I miss bitterly (I'm tired of dome tweeters..)
3- have music in my workshop
My intention was to try them at low volume, just for having music around.
What would be the "desirable" TS parameters for an open baffle? for having decent bass?
hi, i actually had some of the 12" HPD's in Open Baffle for a while, and they did sound better in the cabinets IMO, they did not sound to bad in OB, bass was alright, i have a smallish 11ft Square room, and it was adequate, all i did was take some spare wood, roughly cut it and plonked them in 
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7098/photo0147cv4.jpg
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7098/photo0147cv4.jpg
Tried Tannoy 15" on OB several years ago
Hi Sylver300B,
I tried the Tannoy 3836 15" dual-concentric drivers on OB's 4+ years ago. See the picture and short description at this link:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/shows/maf03_e.html
On the 36"x48" OB's, the 3836 drivers had usable bass down to 80's Hz.
Having a good bass foundation is actually very important for getting the OB speakers to sound right. Options include placing a subwoofer right between the two OB's or adding helper woofers mounted on the OB's close to the ground.
Cheers,
Kurt
Hi Sylver300B,
I tried the Tannoy 3836 15" dual-concentric drivers on OB's 4+ years ago. See the picture and short description at this link:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/shows/maf03_e.html
On the 36"x48" OB's, the 3836 drivers had usable bass down to 80's Hz.
Having a good bass foundation is actually very important for getting the OB speakers to sound right. Options include placing a subwoofer right between the two OB's or adding helper woofers mounted on the OB's close to the ground.
Cheers,
Kurt
Re: Tried Tannoy 15" on OB several years ago
Hello, I got your email message and will answer here - I think Kurt answered your question the way I would have. I'd bi-amp and use as many i5's as you can fit and afford for the helper woofers. a single sub will work OK but like he says it's gotta be placed right and won't be as good as a bunch of dipole 15"s - The Altec will only help a little since it's a low QTS driver, you will be better to sell them (they are worth big bucks now) and buy eight mid QTS 15's to replace them.
KCHANG said:
Hello, I got your email message and will answer here - I think Kurt answered your question the way I would have. I'd bi-amp and use as many i5's as you can fit and afford for the helper woofers. a single sub will work OK but like he says it's gotta be placed right and won't be as good as a bunch of dipole 15"s - The Altec will only help a little since it's a low QTS driver, you will be better to sell them (they are worth big bucks now) and buy eight mid QTS 15's to replace them.
Thanks guys..
Thanks for your replies, Kurt and Magnetar,
Well, the goal was to get some music and experimenting, while building my main project: The.. Autograph
As Magnetar suggests.. I might sell the Altecs, since I see no use for them, but the Tannoys stay..
I've lived with Tannoys for the last 15 years or so and couldn't live without them 
But I'm tired of bass reflex (thump thump thump..) and feel.. horny for horns.. he he.
I'll try to build an OB just for fun, and it might allow me to try other drivers I have as well. I'll put pics.. and the results I get, though I believe you guys about the so so results I should get.
Thanks for your replies, Kurt and Magnetar,
Well, the goal was to get some music and experimenting, while building my main project: The.. Autograph
As Magnetar suggests.. I might sell the Altecs, since I see no use for them, but the Tannoys stay..
I've lived with Tannoys for the last 15 years or so and couldn't live without them But I'm tired of bass reflex (thump thump thump..) and feel.. horny for horns.. he he. I'll try to build an OB just for fun, and it might allow me to try other drivers I have as well. I'll put pics.. and the results I get, though I believe you guys about the so so results I should get.
There is a good article plus a design spreadsheet here:
http://www.diysubwoofers.org/dipole/
I would be careful about exceeding the Tannoys excursion limits!
Possibly use a high pass filter so that limits are not exceeded.
http://www.diysubwoofers.org/dipole/
I would be careful about exceeding the Tannoys excursion limits!
Possibly use a high pass filter so that limits are not exceeded.
I'm surprised to hear of a speaker sounding better in a box than in OB! Shocked in fact! 
After going OB, I can't imagine ever going back. What impresses me most is the sound stage, which all other things being equal with a box speaker (crossover, drivers, source material, frequency response etc), sounds far more real to my ears. Moving around the room, the character of the sound changes much less, and the sound appears to come from a large and deep stage, not from two speakers. Going from OB back to box speakers, the sound stage suddenly collapses back into speakers - it sounds like listening to hifi. With OB, I find myself just sitting back and simply enjoying it a lot more.
I use a ~400mm wide baffle and it rolls off around 200-300 Hz. I bring in a sub at 80 Hz and use eq to get it all flat. I think this is a good way to go.
If you make the box to wide and bring in deep wings, you will affect the power response, make it huge and impractical and ugly. You can probably get decent bass at moderate SPL with a fair amount of eq, although you may find less eq needed than you might expect, when allowing for reinforcement from the floor.
Crossing to a sub makes sense, and you will find that if you cross at 80 Hz that the Tannoy will easily handle the eq, and probably not lose any SPL compared to running it in a box fullrange.
After going OB, I can't imagine ever going back. What impresses me most is the sound stage, which all other things being equal with a box speaker (crossover, drivers, source material, frequency response etc), sounds far more real to my ears. Moving around the room, the character of the sound changes much less, and the sound appears to come from a large and deep stage, not from two speakers. Going from OB back to box speakers, the sound stage suddenly collapses back into speakers - it sounds like listening to hifi. With OB, I find myself just sitting back and simply enjoying it a lot more.
I use a ~400mm wide baffle and it rolls off around 200-300 Hz. I bring in a sub at 80 Hz and use eq to get it all flat. I think this is a good way to go.
If you make the box to wide and bring in deep wings, you will affect the power response, make it huge and impractical and ugly. You can probably get decent bass at moderate SPL with a fair amount of eq, although you may find less eq needed than you might expect, when allowing for reinforcement from the floor.
Crossing to a sub makes sense, and you will find that if you cross at 80 Hz that the Tannoy will easily handle the eq, and probably not lose any SPL compared to running it in a box fullrange.
infos and comments
Thank you all, for the interesting info.
I have Tannoy Golds (with stiffer suspensions I think, lower power handling too..) and I equally have HPD (High Performance Dual) wich I should use for giving it a try at low to moderate levels. I'll be cautious M'ma! I promise! Wouldn't want to harm these babies, for sure.
All these comments and info about OB make me wonder about the "should I" about my Autograph project.. but I like the imediacy and speed, and 3D sound of the Tannoys (and horns, in general) But it sure opens the door to a nice OB project wich should be small or decent in size, for the living room, while the Autograph (fridge size) is for my listening room, in my workshop.
Any project about something small and decent? (with a sub)
consort_ee_um said:
Thank you all, for the interesting info.
I have Tannoy Golds (with stiffer suspensions I think, lower power handling too..) and I equally have HPD (High Performance Dual) wich I should use for giving it a try at low to moderate levels. I'll be cautious M'ma! I promise!
Wouldn't want to harm these babies, for sure. All these comments and info about OB make me wonder about the "should I" about my Autograph project.. but I like the imediacy and speed, and 3D sound of the Tannoys (and horns, in general) But it sure opens the door to a nice OB project wich should be small or decent in size, for the living room, while the Autograph (fridge size) is for my listening room, in my workshop.
Any project about something small and decent? (with a sub)
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