Thanks for posting and showing your speakers! Nice and clean looking. As Barry says, you might want to experiment with getting then away from the wall, you will quickly hear a difference. But the the angle they are turned, wall reflection might not be too bad. Getting away from the wall usually gives better bass.
I have been curious about this idea of asymmetrical wings. Is this to reduce cavity resonance? How is it calculated?
I have not seen this before, multiple LPF's on a single driver. Is this possible with passive filters, or only with DSP like you did it?
I have used felt rings in the past and had good results. It makes me wonder if there are any downsides to them, and if not why every speaker does not have them?
Yes it is. Imagine a room or a speaker box with all identical flat walls. The reflections and resonances will be strong. Go to non-parallel and/or asymmetric walls and the reflections die out much faster, strong resonances are less likely. The same can be said for the OB wings.
As far as the impedance goes, you'll be OK. But that's a high DCR, which will do at least two things.
- Attenuate the woofer more than normal. This means other crossover adjustments, and could limit dynamics.
- Change the Q of the system, meaning bass won't be as tight as it could be. That might not be a big problem, but I haven't tried it.
Is this the correct and most current list for the Ultras?
2 Each, 15” GRS Woofers PE #292-415
2 Each, 3-1/2” Vifa Mid-tweeters TC9FD18-08 PE #264-1062
L1 low pass portion as PE #266-446
L2 as PE #255-272
C1 as PE #027-236
R1 as PE #005-8
R2 as PE # 005-15
Also, post by John (#1174):
"Tapering the upper wing is actually a good idea. 1-2" depth is ideal."
Does that apply to the Ultras? I think I would like to do that for cosmetic reasons as well. How far down should the taper go? Is a radius or straight cut preferred?
Thanks
2 Each, 15” GRS Woofers PE #292-415
2 Each, 3-1/2” Vifa Mid-tweeters TC9FD18-08 PE #264-1062
L1 low pass portion as PE #266-446
L2 as PE #255-272
C1 as PE #027-236
R1 as PE #005-8
R2 as PE # 005-15
Also, post by John (#1174):
"Tapering the upper wing is actually a good idea. 1-2" depth is ideal."
Does that apply to the Ultras? I think I would like to do that for cosmetic reasons as well. How far down should the taper go? Is a radius or straight cut preferred?
Thanks
Just a quick update from my previous posts - I disconnected the 3-way crossover from the shared woofer inductor and whatever problems I was experiencing went away. It's weird as I expected components within an open circuit to hold no influence, but apparently they do. The speakers now have a beautiful balance, as I have been expecting based on all the praise I have been reading about. I probably (almost certainly) have too much midbass though, because my frame is based on the 3-way, with a solid panel all the way to the floor and 9" deep sides. The sound is thick at some frequencies. I'll play with positioning more before I go for any structure changes. They are about 4 feet from the front wall but in an open basement with the back wall 15 feet away and unequal length side walls there aren't many room modes that seem bothersome.
The tangibility of the bass though...oh man lol. Somehow they reveal more detail than I'd ever expect given their price point. Imaging is a little hazy though compared to my box speakers or my Acoustats. Great depth. These seem to require a decently powerful amp, my Pass 50w Zen struggles and distorts at high volumes with these speakers.
The tangibility of the bass though...oh man lol. Somehow they reveal more detail than I'd ever expect given their price point. Imaging is a little hazy though compared to my box speakers or my Acoustats. Great depth. These seem to require a decently powerful amp, my Pass 50w Zen struggles and distorts at high volumes with these speakers.
Hey Pano,
Parts-Express Labor Day sale ends today, was hoping to place the order if could give it a once over. Thanks again!
I did a quick check of your parts against the parts list in post #2502 and it's all in line.
This is Pano's domain but here's a few thoughts while he's traveling. This is all stuff I pulled from this thread over the years.
If you have the money, replace the 18 gauge inductor with a 14 gauge. It makes a very nice improvement in the tweeter and it's cheaper to buy them once.
If you have the money, add the woofer trap. I added it with a cheap cap and 18 gauge inductor and it improved the response of the woofer. John then shamed me into buying a 14 gauge inductor. Frankly, I didn't think a larger gauge inductor would make much of a difference on the bass driver but it did.
John never said boo about the Dayton capacitors so they've never been swapped.
Generally it's a good idea to buy a few extra values of resistors to customize the crossover to your room but they've doubled in price in the past few years. You might want to play with cheaper resistors until you find the values that work in your system then buy a couple of the good ones.
As for the wing taper, I've found no hard and fast rule. My own Ultra's have straight wings as I'm not much of a carpenter. Most of the tapered wings seem to come up to the bottom or the middle of the tweeter. Yet the one photo of the Ultra's from the Lone Star Audio Fest in 2013 shows the taper starting at the top of the woofer.
Maybe play with cardboard wings to find what you like?
This is Pano's domain but here's a few thoughts while he's traveling. This is all stuff I pulled from this thread over the years.
If you have the money, replace the 18 gauge inductor with a 14 gauge. It makes a very nice improvement in the tweeter and it's cheaper to buy them once.
If you have the money, add the woofer trap. I added it with a cheap cap and 18 gauge inductor and it improved the response of the woofer. John then shamed me into buying a 14 gauge inductor. Frankly, I didn't think a larger gauge inductor would make much of a difference on the bass driver but it did.
John never said boo about the Dayton capacitors so they've never been swapped.
Generally it's a good idea to buy a few extra values of resistors to customize the crossover to your room but they've doubled in price in the past few years. You might want to play with cheaper resistors until you find the values that work in your system then buy a couple of the good ones.
As for the wing taper, I've found no hard and fast rule. My own Ultra's have straight wings as I'm not much of a carpenter. Most of the tapered wings seem to come up to the bottom or the middle of the tweeter. Yet the one photo of the Ultra's from the Lone Star Audio Fest in 2013 shows the taper starting at the top of the woofer.
Maybe play with cardboard wings to find what you like?
Thanks a lot for checking the list and for your recommendations.
Do you by chance have the PE part #'s for the larger inductor and woofer trap parts? I looked through the inductors and nothing is really matching up, no 20mh iron cores are found at all.
Concerning the woofer trap, is the below still correct? Air or iron core?
Thanks again for all the help!
Do you by chance have the PE part #'s for the larger inductor and woofer trap parts? I looked through the inductors and nothing is really matching up, no 20mh iron cores are found at all.
Concerning the woofer trap, is the below still correct? Air or iron core?
Thanks again for all the help!
The original woofer inductor was Parts Express 266-960. But that was made by Erse and evidently they have gone out of business. It is my understanding that the one in the crossover you've listed was found as a temporary fill in until a better inductor comes along.
The diagram for the woofer trap is correct. The inductor should be air core not iron core. I can't find part numbers in the thread but a quick search of PE shows a 027-248 Dayton 15 uf cap (there's also a cheaper polypropylene cap - both will work, no idea which got used in my build or which might be "better"). There's a Janzen 15 gauge 255-406 inductor or a Dayton 14 gauge 257-308. Both will work but the 14 gauge is likely better if you can swing the extra cash.
You could also delay adding the trap until later. It'd be a nice upgrade after living with the Ultras for a while.
The diagram for the woofer trap is correct. The inductor should be air core not iron core. I can't find part numbers in the thread but a quick search of PE shows a 027-248 Dayton 15 uf cap (there's also a cheaper polypropylene cap - both will work, no idea which got used in my build or which might be "better"). There's a Janzen 15 gauge 255-406 inductor or a Dayton 14 gauge 257-308. Both will work but the 14 gauge is likely better if you can swing the extra cash.
You could also delay adding the trap until later. It'd be a nice upgrade after living with the Ultras for a while.
Yup, put the order in last night, excited to start building. I skipped the heavy gauge inductors for now. Right now, I am using some JansZen electrostatics from the 80's for my listening area. If the Ultras please my ears more than the JansZens, I will probably sell them and do the upgrade, including the woofer trap.
Been away from the forum for a while and I am saddened today to learn of Mr. John Busch passing. I will like to thank him for the sharing of his knowledge of one of the best and easiest passive full range systems that one can build. Also he was very helpful on the forum when it came to responding to any questions regarding the building of the manzanita. Thanks to him my preference is for open baffle and there is no boxed speaker can came close. I love the "live" sound , the realism of the vocals, the transient response, the "quickness" of the bass, the huge sweet spot and also the depth. RIP John
Some progress pictures. I made the baffles out of an old beat-up dining room table. It is oak veneer on MDF. The table was not big enough so I had to dowel join pieces together, sanded it all down, stained, and poly'd. The wings are solid red oak. I am making a base out of an old drafting table that are 1x's edge glued together, will put a chamfered edge on it.
I hope a 6" counterbore is big enough - I could not find dimensioning info on that.
I hope a 6" counterbore is big enough - I could not find dimensioning info on that.