These go down to 40 cycles with authority and no eq. They are triamped. Side by side twin RCF 8" mids set up for low inter-channel crosstalk and imaging. Five 10" Madison woofers (.75 QTS), the little 18 sound horn with a B&C compression driver. About 104 db with a watt in the bass (97 or so in the mids)...! Crossover points are 50 to my horn sub, 200 to the the RCF 8's and 2500 to the compression driver. The inside mid is high passed at 1K with a 6 db network to straighten things out a bit.
Sound is fast, powerful and accurate. I'm thinking of listening to them for a while.
Sound is fast, powerful and accurate. I'm thinking of listening to them for a while.
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454Casull said:
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Not too pretty - Sandbags anchor them OK
Sweet! Dude - you never stop, do you?
I see your tweak caps on the back - clever!
The sand bags are a nice touch.
FWIW: Back when I was touring we used those new "carbon fiber" sandbags. Expensive, but they will hold down just as much but weigh only 1/10th as much as the conventional sandbags. Nice when you don't want to carry all that weight.
I see your tweak caps on the back - clever!
The sand bags are a nice touch.
FWIW: Back when I was touring we used those new "carbon fiber" sandbags. Expensive, but they will hold down just as much but weigh only 1/10th as much as the conventional sandbags. Nice when you don't want to carry all that weight.
Great work Mike.
Coupla questions;
- did you try a Karlson type coupler on the rear? You mentioned this a while back.
- which RCF's? You may have mentioned this before, but I forget.
- Still not missing horns?
I also really dig the sandbags, barbell weights and the high WAF finish as it reminds me of the amps I build; my brother once asked me if I was ever going to put one in a case.
Coupla questions;
- did you try a Karlson type coupler on the rear? You mentioned this a while back.
- which RCF's? You may have mentioned this before, but I forget.
- Still not missing horns?
I also really dig the sandbags, barbell weights and the high WAF finish as it reminds me of the amps I build; my brother once asked me if I was ever going to put one in a case.
Brett said:
Hello- I built a couple of OB's with the Karlson back, it works very well with a low QTS woofer like the Altec 921 or EV 15B , the five ten array doesn't need it. It lowers the low QTS baffles by at least an octave.
The RCF L8S800 - They are like Audax PR170Mo on steroids.
RCF L8S800
As long as I can keep the dynamics uncompromised and radation under control I can be without horns.
tc-60guy said:
The sound is pure and fast. It also has tight defined bass that you can feel every note through your body. Very close to to live feeling without much hint of listening to speakers. The new National 4562 OPAMPs in my crossover (over the BB 2134) really helped the sound in the bass.
tc-60guy said:
The 'structure' is fine. Having several drivers mounted makes it quite stiff. Where would you brace it?
CLS said:
Please do not worry. The baffle is very rigid - I would not try and pick it up by the top though.
freddi said:
Hi Fred,
The woofers are Warrior 16 ohm and are wired in parallel. About a min 3.2 ohm load. Easy to drive with any well designed amplifier. The bass is focused - in my room they are best at 10-12 feet away. When I tilted them back they sound better further back (behind the main listening area) - I beleive this has to due with the focused radiation and the fact they are a dipole array.
The baffle width I have used has been between 21 and 24 inches so I can use the same template from the Rosie Klam. Around a 15 to 20 degree angle worked.
The driver thinks it's on a much larger baffle - it's basically folded exponential wing extensions. The high qts Warriors with the Karlsonized baffle had a significant measured gain 30- 120 cycles but became non-linear due to the gain so I just run them open.
These have 'almost' the punch of the Klam (what does?!?) but are more detailed and linear. The open baffles also seem to move more air (or maybe just move it better) in my concrete bunker. Like I said before - they sound very much like live sound - with a good recording (like organ stops) you can feel the notes resonate different parts of your body as it travels through your organs- my wife likes them too- !
Just when I had decided to do horns with my BMS drivers this comes up. Those 4 PR170M0s and Fane tweeters OB are looking nice now.
How far off of the back wall do you need to place these? I live in an apartment and can't get 6 foot from the back without having them in the middle of everything...that sort of makes me want to stay with horns. I could put stuff behind the speakers on the wall though.
How far off of the back wall do you need to place these? I live in an apartment and can't get 6 foot from the back without having them in the middle of everything...that sort of makes me want to stay with horns. I could put stuff behind the speakers on the wall though.
winslow said:
Hello, the Fane might not make down low enough - I think the Audax is great if used 400- 3.5k- will it go that low and still sound good?
I found that if you put the Karson slot or vertical reflectors on the back you can get some pretty wild (as in good 3d effect) sound with the speaker close to the wall. Without the reflectors the back wave seems to reflect back and forth between the baffle and the wall and mucks up the sound. With the slot or reflectors you get better power response and tone when close to the wall. I use 360 degree omni directional Tannoy coaxials loaded in spheres firing into an omni reflector (above me) for ambiance with circle surround decoding to deliver better (controlled) power response, size and tone. This is almost unnecessary with the reflectors or slot if you sit close enough (like with 12 feet) and the panels are close to the wall behind them-
I have a rather large NEC CRT projector on the floor in front of me under my coffee/beer table that has to be a critical distance from the screen. I sit behind it.. so I need my speakers out from the back wall for best sound.If I was in a smaller room and had to place the speakers close I'd go for the reflectors or slot for sure.
These speakers have two 24" diameter tube traps and lots of acoustic foam behind them. I also have large round 360 degree reflectors that I can place behind the baffles if I want to really open things up.
winslow said:
The Apt 80's are super with the Audax- I like non-metallic tweeters - the BMS in these speakers are Mylar. They are only 25 bucks and the 18 Sound horns are like 20 bucks - They are good to 2k - no negative horn colorations and good extension
The Karlson slot can be used full range, the reflectors can be too.
Here is an example of a back reflector used in an open back speaker
The above speaker discussion
winslow said:
Active
AA HE forum is pretty sad - I kinda started it (back when nobody with a 'high end' system would consider horns - then in came the freaks -
an old fully horn loaded system watching the Tribe......... Pre Hi Def
GO TRIBE!
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Very nice Mike! I'm about to do something similar with a pair of PR170s per side and a pair of BMS 4540 with one of three different waveguides. I'm clueless at this point wrt compression drivers/horns/waveguides so I bought 4 of the Dayton 12 inchers, a pair of XT1086s and a pair of ENG 90s - I figured one of them will probably work out.
Anyway, I was thinking of doing the Audax drivers vertically and your rig made me wonder about it. Is there any advantage (real or imagined) to the horizontal arrangement you've got going on your mids?
Anyway, I was thinking of doing the Audax drivers vertically and your rig made me wonder about it. Is there any advantage (real or imagined) to the horizontal arrangement you've got going on your mids?
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