Well, I made a thread a little while back trying to get some ideas on a center channel to match my Elsinore Speaker Project. I talked to a Solen tech briefly to get some ideas. He suggested the 6.5" Peerless HDS PPB (same as elsinores) Peerless HDS tweeter (also same as elsinores) and a 4" Peerless HDS PPB midrange. Now this is my problem...to keep costs down I'm trying to fit these all onto one of the Parts Express pre made cabinets. The largest one there only has 8" high of usable front baffle, whereas I would need 9" for the above design. I HATE to have to compromise but is there a different midrange I could use that's smaller than 4" that I could use instead so it'll fit? I know everyone will suggest a different box. I don't have the right tools...the company that made my Elsinore cabinets charge LOTS and have a 3 month waiting list.
So, I'm just exploring my options here. Can anyone suggest a worthy replacement for the 4" Peerless HDS PPB midrange, that's a tiny bit smaller?
Thanks guys!
So, I'm just exploring my options here. Can anyone suggest a worthy replacement for the 4" Peerless HDS PPB midrange, that's a tiny bit smaller?
Thanks guys!
I have to wonder why you need the 4" mid? The 6.5" and the tweeter should work well together without it.
I am assuming you are thinking of an upright centre ?
If it is a horizontal design you have in mind, then go to a pair of the 5" HDS with HDS tweeter in MTM formation crossed as low as the HDS tweeter can manage.
I am assuming you are thinking of an upright centre ?
If it is a horizontal design you have in mind, then go to a pair of the 5" HDS with HDS tweeter in MTM formation crossed as low as the HDS tweeter can manage.
Hmm..well if they can fit then maybe I'll just give that a shot!
The tech at Solen suggested a horizontal design, and he suggested the 6.5s" and 4" with HDS tweeter.
I'm not exactly sure why he would suggest the mid...I think the said the horizontal speaker box, 6.5" on the sides, and mid and tweeter vertically between them had the best dispersion. He was very adamant about this. I originally came to him with a 6.5" and tweeter in a bookshelf type speaker to keep costs down etc, but he wouldn't go for it because he said the center channel is extremely important. So...here I am!
Any more suggestions?
The tech at Solen suggested a horizontal design, and he suggested the 6.5s" and 4" with HDS tweeter.
I'm not exactly sure why he would suggest the mid...I think the said the horizontal speaker box, 6.5" on the sides, and mid and tweeter vertically between them had the best dispersion. He was very adamant about this. I originally came to him with a 6.5" and tweeter in a bookshelf type speaker to keep costs down etc, but he wouldn't go for it because he said the center channel is extremely important. So...here I am!
Any more suggestions?
Ahhh now I see what he was suggesting, I now understand !!!
M + t/m + M , is one of the better options for a centre channel.
so its not the 6.5's that are the problem, its the HDS tweeter sitting above the 4" mid !!
The obvious solution is to use a smaller faceplate tweeter.
The Vifa D26NC is a very nice tweeter, and an obvious tweeter for this purpose. There are probably other tweeter that would also do the job.
Another option, if you are game, would be to still use the Peerless HDS tweeter but to trim its faceplate so it matches the shape of the HDS drivers. You need to remove the faceplate to do this, but with most tweeters its isn't really a problem.
that would gain you about 1/2" or maybe a bit more, I think.
M + t/m + M , is one of the better options for a centre channel.
so its not the 6.5's that are the problem, its the HDS tweeter sitting above the 4" mid !!
The obvious solution is to use a smaller faceplate tweeter.
The Vifa D26NC is a very nice tweeter, and an obvious tweeter for this purpose. There are probably other tweeter that would also do the job.
Another option, if you are game, would be to still use the Peerless HDS tweeter but to trim its faceplate so it matches the shape of the HDS drivers. You need to remove the faceplate to do this, but with most tweeters its isn't really a problem.
that would gain you about 1/2" or maybe a bit more, I think.
Well I was hoping to use the HDS tweeter to be matched with the Elsinores!
http://www.customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_index.htm
I'm just trying to keep everything matching as much as I can.
Now...don't mind this HORRIBLE sketch I quickly made in paint...but how unacceptable would this be? having the tweeter and mid not sitting directly above and below each other? I recall seeing an Energy speaker with this sorta layout.
http://www.customanalogue.com/elsinore/elsinore_index.htm
I'm just trying to keep everything matching as much as I can.
Now...don't mind this HORRIBLE sketch I quickly made in paint...but how unacceptable would this be? having the tweeter and mid not sitting directly above and below each other? I recall seeing an Energy speaker with this sorta layout.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
nope, the idea is to have them directly above each other.
Look at trimming the faceplate. It may not be as difficult as you think. Right size allen key to remove the faceplate, it should just lift off. Don't disturb the diaphagm assembly if you can help it.
The faceplate is plastic iirc, so easy enough to trim outside the screw holes on either side. Fit it up nicely next to the straight edge of the 4" HDS.
Maybe even trimming one edge would be sufficient to let you squeeze it in !
Look at trimming the faceplate. It may not be as difficult as you think. Right size allen key to remove the faceplate, it should just lift off. Don't disturb the diaphagm assembly if you can help it.
The faceplate is plastic iirc, so easy enough to trim outside the screw holes on either side. Fit it up nicely next to the straight edge of the 4" HDS.
Maybe even trimming one edge would be sufficient to let you squeeze it in !
Attachments
http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/pdf/pl/810921.pdf
are we talking the same tweeter?
edit...............
actually, on digging further, I think you are right. It sorta looks like plastic in the pic, but my WES catalog says it is metal.
A bit more care needed, and maybe a grinder?
It does make things a tad more difficult, but still doable I think.
edit again........
the number given in the WES catalog is totally different, and the tweeter appears to have a flat metal faceplate ?????
so please ignore all comments from me, re this tweeter.
I goofed !! WES actually have a tweeter called a HDS, which is totally different from the one mentioned.
are we talking the same tweeter?
edit...............
actually, on digging further, I think you are right. It sorta looks like plastic in the pic, but my WES catalog says it is metal.
A bit more care needed, and maybe a grinder?
It does make things a tad more difficult, but still doable I think.
edit again........
the number given in the WES catalog is totally different, and the tweeter appears to have a flat metal faceplate ?????
so please ignore all comments from me, re this tweeter.
I goofed !! WES actually have a tweeter called a HDS, which is totally different from the one mentioned.
you don't think so? hmm...
that's what i went to solen with originally...just a TM. but he advised against that because of how important the center channel is...so i guess he thinks just a TM wouldn't keep up with the Elsinores? If i could do a TM then that would make my life much easier...but at the same time I really want to do this right so I don't have to do it for a while....
is there something I can read on horizontal vs. vertical center channels that you guys might know of?
thanks again for all your help
that's what i went to solen with originally...just a TM. but he advised against that because of how important the center channel is...so i guess he thinks just a TM wouldn't keep up with the Elsinores? If i could do a TM then that would make my life much easier...but at the same time I really want to do this right so I don't have to do it for a while....
is there something I can read on horizontal vs. vertical center channels that you guys might know of?
thanks again for all your help
heres another idea...
don't mind my "noob" talk...but I'm still not quite familiar with crossovers and their terms so please bare with me...
The Elsinores have four 6.5" mid/woofers. The bottom two being the woofers, and the top two being the mids.
what if, I built a vertical speaker with two 6.5"s, one being mid, one being woofer and the HDS tweeter.
Either in a MTW, or a TMW layout...
any thoughts?
don't mind my "noob" talk...but I'm still not quite familiar with crossovers and their terms so please bare with me...
The Elsinores have four 6.5" mid/woofers. The bottom two being the woofers, and the top two being the mids.
what if, I built a vertical speaker with two 6.5"s, one being mid, one being woofer and the HDS tweeter.
Either in a MTW, or a TMW layout...
any thoughts?
I had almost the same thoughts - a completely different 3way filter might interfere too much with your Elsie , maybe even more than a different tweeter and you dont like that but COULD settle on a different midrange, not really logical - but what do I know, it might work, or it might not
Your own thoughts and exactly what I was thinking too, might be better, using the same drivers as in your mains - BUT I would copy the top MTM from your Elsie EXACTLY, and you might even be able use the filter section too - only box volume and port will have to be recalculated
Your own thoughts and exactly what I was thinking too, might be better, using the same drivers as in your mains - BUT I would copy the top MTM from your Elsie EXACTLY, and you might even be able use the filter section too - only box volume and port will have to be recalculated
Personally, I would completely forget the 4" mid altogether.
Use the same 6.5" Peerless HDS mid-woofers that you have in the Elsinore towers as well as the same HDS tweeter. Set it up as a standard MTM with a similar xover as in the Elsinore, minus the low-cut filter, and you're done.
You can easily fit everything into Parts Express' largest bookshelf enclosure. You won't have to worry too much about the bass extention since I'm sure you'll have the bass directed to either your main channels or to a sub(s).
Your main concern with the center channel performance should be above the xover point of your HT processor (mine is selectable between 50Hz-150Hz). What you want out of the center channel is excellent tonal balance between it and your Elsinore towers, which means mainly in the midrange and treble so that dialog and music from the center channel sound just as good as the mains.
And as for placement, as a good rule of thumb, it's typically best to keep the tweeter of the center channel within 2' above or below the tweeters in the main channels. That way, when dialog and action pans from left to right, you don't have the sound in the middle of the screen shooting up towards the ceiling or falling down near the floor.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Use the same 6.5" Peerless HDS mid-woofers that you have in the Elsinore towers as well as the same HDS tweeter. Set it up as a standard MTM with a similar xover as in the Elsinore, minus the low-cut filter, and you're done.
You can easily fit everything into Parts Express' largest bookshelf enclosure. You won't have to worry too much about the bass extention since I'm sure you'll have the bass directed to either your main channels or to a sub(s).
Your main concern with the center channel performance should be above the xover point of your HT processor (mine is selectable between 50Hz-150Hz). What you want out of the center channel is excellent tonal balance between it and your Elsinore towers, which means mainly in the midrange and treble so that dialog and music from the center channel sound just as good as the mains.
And as for placement, as a good rule of thumb, it's typically best to keep the tweeter of the center channel within 2' above or below the tweeters in the main channels. That way, when dialog and action pans from left to right, you don't have the sound in the middle of the screen shooting up towards the ceiling or falling down near the floor.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
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