Hi i'm new to this stuff and I need some help. I am getting ready to build a system, my first and I am going with a push pull 6v6 tube amp.
I already ordered 2 HH Scott 8" mids and 3 inch tweeters with crossovers and I still need woofers.
I'm looking at a couple of Utah 12 inch and a pair of KENWOOD KL-999X 16" WOOFERS.
Are either of these a good choice??
can anyone recommend brands to look for, not too expensive!
Thanks,
Rob Capone
I already ordered 2 HH Scott 8" mids and 3 inch tweeters with crossovers and I still need woofers.
I'm looking at a couple of Utah 12 inch and a pair of KENWOOD KL-999X 16" WOOFERS.
Are either of these a good choice??
can anyone recommend brands to look for, not too expensive!
Thanks,
Rob Capone
Hi Rob,
Are you just buying different drivers and hoping to simply stick them together? That is no way to get anything good going on.
You might want to buy the speakers completed. What tube amps "like" to see is a relatively constant impedance. Most systems would have been corner loaded horns or large bass reflex types. The smaller systems used open back boxes.
You also want something that is efficient. You will have 10 ~ 12 wrms at your disposal, possibly a touch higher (we are talking about fractions of a dB here).
Some people like single full range speaker systems. His means that that one speaker is more expensive.
-Chris
Are you just buying different drivers and hoping to simply stick them together? That is no way to get anything good going on.
You might want to buy the speakers completed. What tube amps "like" to see is a relatively constant impedance. Most systems would have been corner loaded horns or large bass reflex types. The smaller systems used open back boxes.
You also want something that is efficient. You will have 10 ~ 12 wrms at your disposal, possibly a touch higher (we are talking about fractions of a dB here).Some people like single full range speaker systems. His means that that one speaker is more expensive.
-Chris
Tube driven...
Hi Rob,
Are you commited to using these specific drivers for your project?
If so, you should have checked the SPL (Sound pressure level) rating and noted the frequency range of each for a degree of overlap.
"Tube speakers" should be SPL rated as high as is possible for high fidelity. Anything less than 98DBa might be a stretch for common tube amps.........However, volume is relative, do you like ear bleeding volume levels as in a full on Rock concert? Do you like cozy club jazz at moderate levels?
Check the specs of the drivers you have now & we all can go from there.
____________________________________Rick.........
Hi Rob,
Are you commited to using these specific drivers for your project?
If so, you should have checked the SPL (Sound pressure level) rating and noted the frequency range of each for a degree of overlap.
"Tube speakers" should be SPL rated as high as is possible for high fidelity. Anything less than 98DBa might be a stretch for common tube amps.........However, volume is relative, do you like ear bleeding volume levels as in a full on Rock concert? Do you like cozy club jazz at moderate levels?
Check the specs of the drivers you have now & we all can go from there.
____________________________________Rick.........
HH Scott speakers
OK Guys, "ordered" was the wrong use of language.
I won on eBay the following:
HH Scott Model S8 Loudspeaker systems complete with the 8 inch wide range and a 4 inch tweeter hand soldered to the cross-over board.
No cabinets included I am going to build an old design that I found in a 1960's copy of Electronics Illistrated.
Are any of you familliar with these? Did I make a mistake?
Do I even need anything else?
OK Guys, "ordered" was the wrong use of language.
I won on eBay the following:
HH Scott Model S8 Loudspeaker systems complete with the 8 inch wide range and a 4 inch tweeter hand soldered to the cross-over board.
No cabinets included I am going to build an old design that I found in a 1960's copy of Electronics Illistrated.
Are any of you familliar with these? Did I make a mistake?
Do I even need anything else?
Attachments
Hi Rob,
Don't go and build a design. Now that you have the woofers, design the proper box for them.
All the information you need to do this can be found in books by David B. Weems. Please get a copy and read it before you do anything else. Even an old used copy. They were called "How to Design, Build, & Test Complete Speaker Systems", the first one anyway. TAB is the publisher, #1064, 3274 and 3374. All these have different titles and one was sold through Radio Shack also.
What you will do is figure out the T/S parameters and design the box. With these values known, you can use other design methods to design a different box. I normally go for sealed or B4 ported, depending on the parameters.
-Chris
Don't go and build a design. Now that you have the woofers, design the proper box for them.
All the information you need to do this can be found in books by David B. Weems. Please get a copy and read it before you do anything else. Even an old used copy. They were called "How to Design, Build, & Test Complete Speaker Systems", the first one anyway. TAB is the publisher, #1064, 3274 and 3374. All these have different titles and one was sold through Radio Shack also.
What you will do is figure out the T/S parameters and design the box. With these values known, you can use other design methods to design a different box. I normally go for sealed or B4 ported, depending on the parameters.
-Chris
In keeping with the theme of the speakers I would recommend getting some Seas 25F-EW (as used in old Dynaco) they are paper cone & designed for sealed box.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_258&products_id=817
If you want to keep the tweeters You may want to also consider adding super tweeters as I doubt what you have will do much past 10k. You will probably require an L-Pad as most super tweeters are horn types & very efficient.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/fostexdrivers/ft17h.pdf
In the end you will have a big old style 4 way - woohoo!
Andrew.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_228_258&products_id=817
If you want to keep the tweeters You may want to also consider adding super tweeters as I doubt what you have will do much past 10k. You will probably require an L-Pad as most super tweeters are horn types & very efficient.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/fostexdrivers/ft17h.pdf
In the end you will have a big old style 4 way - woohoo!
Andrew.
Rob'
Don't get discouraged by some of the comments flying around....your gear looks fine to me, I would however build a more modern box as a tower rather than the "classic" "Golden ratio" box.
I do believe also that this system will benefit from an ultra tweeter, but I feel a piezo would be best in this application as it won't upset the impedance of the system & would de easy to implement.....plus they are cheap!
If T/S specs are impossible to find/derive, I would figure a narrow tower design of three cubic feet will be close.
I envision a ten inch wide by thirteen inch deep by fourty inch high
box...one inch thick MDF. Orient the drivers at the top....just the 8" 4" & an ultratweeter.
Read the primer on piezos' at www.partsexpress.com
_____________________________________Rick...........
Don't get discouraged by some of the comments flying around....your gear looks fine to me, I would however build a more modern box as a tower rather than the "classic" "Golden ratio" box.
I do believe also that this system will benefit from an ultra tweeter, but I feel a piezo would be best in this application as it won't upset the impedance of the system & would de easy to implement.....plus they are cheap!
If T/S specs are impossible to find/derive, I would figure a narrow tower design of three cubic feet will be close.
I envision a ten inch wide by thirteen inch deep by fourty inch high
box...one inch thick MDF. Orient the drivers at the top....just the 8" 4" & an ultratweeter.
Read the primer on piezos' at www.partsexpress.com
_____________________________________Rick...........
Hi Richard,
I agree with most of your comments. I've built all kinds of enclosures amd "the golden ratio" types are hard to mess up. For tower types, I place the woofer and port at the 1/3 mark on the baffle (assuming an open box design). This reduces the "pipe" sound you can get if you aren't careful.
I built a different box type that turns into a natural tower. It's a direct radiating, dual chamber design detailed in the Weems book. I am still using the prototypes in my bedroom. The earlier 10" woofers may want a 4,000 ~ 5,500 cu in box.
See what is measured for parameters.
-Chris
I agree with most of your comments. I've built all kinds of enclosures amd "the golden ratio" types are hard to mess up. For tower types, I place the woofer and port at the 1/3 mark on the baffle (assuming an open box design). This reduces the "pipe" sound you can get if you aren't careful.
I built a different box type that turns into a natural tower. It's a direct radiating, dual chamber design detailed in the Weems book. I am still using the prototypes in my bedroom. The earlier 10" woofers may want a 4,000 ~ 5,500 cu in box.
See what is measured for parameters.
-Chris
speaker update
OK,
The HH Scott speakers arrived yesterday and due to the various comments I decided I had to gently try them out with my current amp a Harman Kardon AVR 500.
I popped in a Sting CD and to my amazement, with them just laying out on the floor, they sounded sweeter than my Infinity RS2's.
Particularly the high end was way better than I have been used to with the Infinities. I was also impressed with the base response considering that they are only 8"s and not yet in a box.
Now I really can’t wait to build my tube amp!! Just waiting for a few more parts to come.
I will also hold off on the box until I get a chance to read the book, but I thought I'd mention the design that I was considering to see if any of you are familiar with it.
It is called the Three-Corner Space Saver.
G. A. Briggs of Wharfedale Wireless Works in England designed it. It is, of course, a Triangular design on 3 - 6" legs with a port on the bottom rear of the enclosure. It appeared in the October 1967 issue of Popular Electronics.
If anyone is interested, I can scan the article and attach a link here. Let me know.
Rob
OK,
The HH Scott speakers arrived yesterday and due to the various comments I decided I had to gently try them out with my current amp a Harman Kardon AVR 500.
I popped in a Sting CD and to my amazement, with them just laying out on the floor, they sounded sweeter than my Infinity RS2's.
Particularly the high end was way better than I have been used to with the Infinities. I was also impressed with the base response considering that they are only 8"s and not yet in a box.
Now I really can’t wait to build my tube amp!! Just waiting for a few more parts to come.
I will also hold off on the box until I get a chance to read the book, but I thought I'd mention the design that I was considering to see if any of you are familiar with it.
It is called the Three-Corner Space Saver.
G. A. Briggs of Wharfedale Wireless Works in England designed it. It is, of course, a Triangular design on 3 - 6" legs with a port on the bottom rear of the enclosure. It appeared in the October 1967 issue of Popular Electronics.
If anyone is interested, I can scan the article and attach a link here. Let me know.
Rob
anatech said:
I dont understand this statement - are you implying that all commercial designs are too small & inefficient? What about Wilson Audio, Avalon Acoustics even Verity Aduio - are you saying that there designs should all be doubled in volume? & if they were they would get both lower bass extension & higher efficiency?
PS. Having the port directed to the floor as part of the design is totally acceptable, take a look at Avalon Acoustics, they use that technique.
Personally I would rather design my own box, most speakers back in the 60s did not use T/S parameters - you just picked a box you liked & bought any driver to put in it. For the most part this worked with high Qts drivers & sealed boxes, you just ended up with varying Qtc, from 0.7 to 1+ (which for the most part sounded fine). This all changed with the introduction of vented / bass-reflex designs which allowed for a smaller box with the same f3 & higher efficiency, this in turn lead to drivers with lower Qts, lower Fs & hence lower efficiency - but a much smaller box.
Andrew.
Hi Andrew,
Understand that you are shipping a large, heavy box of air. You can save a small fortune in shipping alone.
I've designed a lot of speaker enclosures in my day, before personal computers were available as the PC. If you mess with the driver by adding mass to the cone to lower f3, your efficiency drops like a stone. This is all physics guys. I don't think anyone revised the rules lately.
-Chris
Yes, for the most part. Why do you ask?
Understand that you are shipping a large, heavy box of air. You can save a small fortune in shipping alone.
Have a look at my sig line. People do not always do what is good, fashion dictates many design considerations.
Ahhhh, no. Run the numbers again please. A B4 box (Butterworth, maximally flat) is always larger than a sealed box using a driver with QTS = 0.38 ish. Always, never once seen an exception - ever.
I've designed a lot of speaker enclosures in my day, before personal computers were available as the PC. If you mess with the driver by adding mass to the cone to lower f3, your efficiency drops like a stone. This is all physics guys. I don't think anyone revised the rules lately.
-Chris
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