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best PURE midrange (400hz-->)
best PURE midrange (400hz-->)
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Old 19th April 2007, 01:32 PM   #1
thadman is offline thadman  United States
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Default best PURE midrange (400hz-->)

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I am looking for the best pure midrange (~400hz to 1500~2000hz, final passband is dependant on integration with compression driver) solution. This speaker is meant for subjective listening excellence and will be a substitute until I have time to truly sit down and engineer my ambitious ESL project. I listen to a lot of progressive metal (ie TOOL, Dream Theater, NIN although they arent quite in the same genre) which in themselves introduce large amounts of favorable distortion. I do NOT want the speaker to rip these recordings to shreds, remember this speaker is meant for listening enjoyment.

I do not have a price limit, although a large increase in price for marginal improvement is hard to justify. The PHL 1120 look excellent ($120 at Zalytron), but would something lk an 18sounds 10NdA520 ($225) or 10NdA610 ($238) which possess AIC (Active Impendance Control) be a much better solution?

I will be tri-amping with large proamps and am considering a PC XO for DRC and FIR filters if I can get the software cheap enough.

I will be crossing to a BMS 4540ND (have not decided which waveguide I will be mating with it) on the topend and a Ciare 18.00NdW1 on the lowend (exhibits the first breakup node between 1600-1700hz, so 3rd harmonic of this peak should lie smack dab in the 500hz range, 530-570). A high efficiency driver seems like an obvious choice since it will be used between two of them.
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Old 19th April 2007, 01:39 PM   #2
youyoung21147 is offline youyoung21147  France
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PHL1120 has not quite a good CSD.

Have a look on this thread, many references have been mentioned.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=1
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Old 19th April 2007, 02:16 PM   #3
Baseballbat is offline Baseballbat  Germany
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It was not mentioned in the linked thread, have a look at the Ciare 10.64 NdMR. It is a pure midrange (fs 141Hz) with >97dB above 400Hz@2.83V. A little resonance at 2.3kHz, but even at that frequency a very fast decay. Harmonic Distortion <0.3%@90dB for all orders. 243€ in Germany.

Another really good one is the Celestion TF1020, little higher distortion, less SPL (96dB above 300Hz@2.83V), but better dispersion than the Ciare. Only 92€ in Germany.

Baseballbatboy
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Old 19th April 2007, 06:04 PM   #4
454Casull is offline 454Casull  Canada
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What kind of SPL are you looking for?
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Old 19th April 2007, 07:32 PM   #5
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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This depends a LOT on what type of sound you want..

1. Obviously you want details (to compete with an esl), THAT suggests a high eff. driver (for its sd).

2. IF you want something that presents a more "holographic" sound then look for a low mass driver (for a given sd), AND a relatively small sd.

Unfortunately 1 & 2 are at cross purposes, especially if you want high output in addition to 1 & 2.

My suggestion will net you all 3 (with a steep high pass), and you can impove upon the decay character somewhat with some driver modification.

FE126E X4 per side connected in series/parallel. This will "lift" the response around 480 Hz or so to compensate for the loss in spl the driver naturally has (..and as a result should give a moderately flat freq. response in your intended passband). I'd recommend open baffle to get the best sound with the least work. Use the "Edge" software program to get a good open baffle configuration.

Note that the FE126E even with modification has a modest problem just above 1 kHz.. BUT that doesn't seem to deter people from liking the driver.

For a moderately unbiased subjective opinion read Troel's comments here:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/FE126E.htm

Contact Dave (Planet10) for details on driver modification if you are interested.

for the horn - take a look at Paul W's MusicSupplyCenter waveguide here:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...&pagenumber=13
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Old 19th April 2007, 08:24 PM   #6
youyoung21147 is offline youyoung21147  France
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Quote:
Originally posted by Baseballbat
It was not mentioned in the linked thread, have a look at the Ciare 10.64 NdMR. It is a pure midrange (fs 141Hz) with >97dB above 400Hz@2.83V. A little resonance at 2.3kHz, but even at that frequency a very fast decay. Harmonic Distortion <0.3%@90dB for all orders. 243 in Germany.

Another really good one is the Celestion TF1020, little higher distortion, less SPL (96dB above 300Hz@2.83V), but better dispersion than the Ciare. Only 92 in Germany.

Baseballbatboy



Those drivers seem interesting ! Do you have the links to the complete tests of these units ?
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Old 19th April 2007, 08:28 PM   #7
thadman is offline thadman  United States
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I want a sound that best compliments the type of music I listen to (Progressive metal, ie TOOL), not necessarily micro details.

I read the entire large midrange for OB thread and am extremely curious on the use of the 18sound 15ND930/18ND930 (or other extremely large diameter drivers) in the upper range. How would a driver like this compare to a dedicated midrange?
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Old 19th April 2007, 08:35 PM   #8
Baseballbat is offline Baseballbat  Germany
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Here's the link to the PDF of the Celestion TF1020: http://professional.celestion.com/pr...pdf/TF1020.pdf

The frequency response and the impedance are nearly the same as the one in the german magazine Hobby HiFi, so I think you can trust them. Maybe I can give you a scan later, but don't expect too much, my scanner is lousy and the distortion graph does not have much contrast. I can give it a try.

The Ciare is in the same test. Here's the pdf, again the frequency response looks like in the test (although its a little bit louder): http://www.seeburg.net/1064NdMR_dt.pdf

Baseballbatboy
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Old 19th April 2007, 08:46 PM   #9
youyoung21147 is offline youyoung21147  France
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Quote:
my scanner is lousy and the distortion graph does not have much contrast. I can give it a try.
Don't worry it could still be better than nothing !! We count on you lol
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Old 19th April 2007, 08:49 PM   #10
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by thadman
I want a sound that best compliments the type of music I listen to (Progressive metal, ie TOOL), not necessarily micro details.

Not to be rude, but why would you even contemplate an esl project then? A really good coaxial compression driver like BMS has will provide all the detail of an esl WITH the dynamic and spl level handling that it won't provide (which will be FAR better with the music you prefer). If you like the dipole character then you can always "double up" and wire for phase correctly.
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