Hi guys,
Thought you may want to know this. We compared the following last weekend in Australia:
- Behringer DCX2496
- Behringer DCX2496, modified
- Behringer CX2310
- DEQX HDP-3
- MiniDSP (Gainphile's)
The system used was Acapella Violon, Cary signature monoblocks, etc. High res enough?
I honestly thought I could not differentiate any of the products which says alot about MiniDSP being the cheapest of the bunch. But this is what the host had to say:
The comparisons were made with very close level matching.
Red trace: MiniDSP, Blue trace: DCX2496. Again, near perfect level matching. Note that the MiniDSP drops off sharply with a brick wall filter after 20kHz. I felt that the MiniDSP sounded better - with a clearer top end, lower noise floor, and better bass definition. I was able to pick the MiniDSP 3/3 in a blind test. I am pretty sure I could have made it 5/5 or 10/10 but the others thought that I had proven my point that I wasn't bluffing when I said I heard the difference .
Thought you may want to know this. We compared the following last weekend in Australia:
- Behringer DCX2496
- Behringer DCX2496, modified
- Behringer CX2310
- DEQX HDP-3
- MiniDSP (Gainphile's)
The system used was Acapella Violon, Cary signature monoblocks, etc. High res enough?
I honestly thought I could not differentiate any of the products which says alot about MiniDSP being the cheapest of the bunch. But this is what the host had to say:
The comparisons were made with very close level matching.
Red trace: MiniDSP, Blue trace: DCX2496. Again, near perfect level matching. Note that the MiniDSP drops off sharply with a brick wall filter after 20kHz. I felt that the MiniDSP sounded better - with a clearer top end, lower noise floor, and better bass definition. I was able to pick the MiniDSP 3/3 in a blind test. I am pretty sure I could have made it 5/5 or 10/10 but the others thought that I had proven my point that I wasn't bluffing when I said I heard the difference .
Wow.. You guys are having quite some fun down under!
Neat to hear that you're able to line up a blind test with so much gear in one room... Must have been a fun day!
In the end, we're certainly glad to hear that you're finding the miniDSP fitting your expectations..
Did you initially intend to send us a screenshot of a measurement as part of your post? (Red trace/blue trace) It doesn't show up for some reason...
Neat to hear that you're able to line up a blind test with so much gear in one room... Must have been a fun day!
In the end, we're certainly glad to hear that you're finding the miniDSP fitting your expectations..
Did you initially intend to send us a screenshot of a measurement as part of your post? (Red trace/blue trace) It doesn't show up for some reason...
We had hoped that it would be the star of the day. However upon adjusting levels etc. it played up and did not want to make sound. And when it did we clearly hear the tonal balance was difference! Not sure what happened then but we did not get a good valid result.
Wow.. You guys are having quite some fun down under!
Neat to hear that you're able to line up a blind test with so much gear in one room... Must have been a fun day!
In the end, we're certainly glad to hear that you're finding the miniDSP fitting your expectations..
Did you initially intend to send us a screenshot of a measurement as part of your post? (Red trace/blue trace) It doesn't show up for some reason...
Fun we did have !
Yes this was my intended attachment. It shows how close we level matched each other. Crossover was 80hz and 607hz 4th orders.
Above was the Standard DCX2496 vs. MiniDSP.
Cool, thanks for the measurement.
I wonder where the difference at what seems to be the crossover point (607Hz cut off though hard to read so couldn't be sure...) is about....
I can't see with the res of that picture what scale we're looking at on the amplitude, but it's quite odd that a similar implementation on a DCX and miniDSP would have a different overall response. (mic position didn't change I'm guessing).
Do you see what I mean?
As for the DEQX, we'd also be interested in seeing how it compares... The advantages of FIR filtering and all the advanced features it provides would be very valuable to evaluate... When is the next "Australian-DSP-shoot-out" planned?
I wonder where the difference at what seems to be the crossover point (607Hz cut off though hard to read so couldn't be sure...) is about....
I can't see with the res of that picture what scale we're looking at on the amplitude, but it's quite odd that a similar implementation on a DCX and miniDSP would have a different overall response. (mic position didn't change I'm guessing).
Do you see what I mean?
As for the DEQX, we'd also be interested in seeing how it compares...
The advantages of FIR filtering and all the advanced features it provides would be very valuable to evaluate... When is the next "Australian-DSP-shoot-out" planned?
Comparation PART II
We did another comparo between MiniDSP, Behringer DCX2496, and DEQX. This time we use Unity Horn speakers.
Again, I cannot pick any difference from those units, except DEQX where it seems it's not properly cofigured (?). Although the rest do pick up difference and prefer the sound of MiniDSP.
Paul Spencer had done a great write up:
Red Spade Audio: Test 2: Antripodean's unity horn system
Also:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/30546-Active-crossover-DBT-GTG-pt-2
We did another comparo between MiniDSP, Behringer DCX2496, and DEQX. This time we use Unity Horn speakers.
Again, I cannot pick any difference from those units, except DEQX where it seems it's not properly cofigured (?). Although the rest do pick up difference and prefer the sound of MiniDSP.
Paul Spencer had done a great write up:
Red Spade Audio: Test 2: Antripodean's unity horn system
Also:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/30546-Active-crossover-DBT-GTG-pt-2
Last edited:
@ Gainphile and the "Aussie Team"
Nice write up and glad to hear that miniDSP was performing so well in your tests!
Alright, down to this magic DEQX @ 2K a pop... How come it's not behaving? Is the unit faulty or is there a complex setup involved maybe? (PS Pardon my ignorance on their units.. I really don't know how they are setup and used .. )
We'd love to hear the improvement on these 300dB/oct filter, linear phase filters, FIR filters and all the goodness it comes with...
While in a "complete" different league than miniDSP (20 X the price), we're are just curious as to which of the feature they provide would really be worth implementing.. i.e. keeping cost low but yet providing even more features on the miniDSP platform...
anyway, thanks again for sharing your findings..
Nice write up and glad to hear that miniDSP was performing so well in your tests!
Alright, down to this magic DEQX @ 2K a pop... How come it's not behaving? Is the unit faulty or is there a complex setup involved maybe? (PS Pardon my ignorance on their units.. I really don't know how they are setup and used ..
) We'd love to hear the improvement on these 300dB/oct filter, linear phase filters, FIR filters and all the goodness it comes with...
While in a "complete" different league than miniDSP (20 X the price), we're are just curious as to which of the feature they provide would really be worth implementing.. i.e. keeping cost low but yet providing even more features on the miniDSP platform...
anyway, thanks again for sharing your findings..
Alright, down to this magic DEQX @ 2K a pop... How come it's not behaving? Is the unit faulty or is there a complex setup involved maybe? (PS Pardon my ignorance on their units.. I really don't know how they are setup and used ..
We'd love to hear the improvement on these 300dB/oct filter, linear phase filters, FIR filters and all the goodness it comes with...
It's $6k when new. I did not personally set the unit so not really sure what's wrong. We know that the response was audibly rolled off. To me all the settings, menu, etc. looks very complex.
I suggested an "operator error" and that was not taken too kindly
Earlier in the year I listened to a pair of Legend Tikandis which uses the DEQX and noticed no issues whatsoever.
Does it make breakfast with Waffles and coffee for that price? ;-)
Anyway, if it's indeed a tough piece to configure, we understand that it takes time. We look forward to hearing your comments the day you get it to work. Although very hard to compare such platform to our low cost platform, our main interest would be to know if which one of the feature would be of real interest to focus on.
Anyway, if it's indeed a tough piece to configure, we understand that it takes time. We look forward to hearing your comments the day you get it to work. Although very hard to compare such platform to our low cost platform, our main interest would be to know if which one of the feature would be of real interest to focus on.
The complexity seems to be due to its massive features. I heard it can automatically measure and set xo points, eq, etc. Whether that actually is a correct way to design loudspeakers I'm not sure (perhaps in anaechoic chamber, yes).
During the comparo we were more interested to see sound quality aspects. Unfortunately we could not get it working properly even with simple straightforward xo setting.
During the comparo we were more interested to see sound quality aspects. Unfortunately we could not get it working properly even with simple straightforward xo setting.
Hi gainphile (and minidsp!)
A couple of points if of interest re the deqx.
No, it does not automatically set crossover points etc etc, it (like minidsp in this regard) is nothing but a dumb machine, it does what you tell it to. (well, ignore that there will be a warning, but you get my drift)
Send a twenty hz signal to your tweeter, because you have said so, then goodbye tweeter! In other words, no different to the precautions you need to take with minidsp or behringer.
I cannot comment on how it was set up in that specific configuration, only to note that the person who did the setup is, hmm, perhaps not the best one to do it?
Oh, and yes, it CAN be complex to set up indeed. Especially when you are first learning, but let's not beat around the bush, as much as you can make a speaker sound great you can easily make it sound bad. That of course might not apply only to the deqx.
(oh, in case you have not realised, I run a deqx)
Minidsp team, I would not personally put too much emphasis on steep slopes (talking 300 or so). TBH, I don't think I have ever tried them! [Hah!, maybe if I did try them I would eat my words?]
There is a distinct difference between the two units (when each is running to it's optimum), which is of course what you'd expect from the price differential.
Due to that (very large) difference in price, my advice is 'if you cannot afford the deqx, don't sweat it. Just enjoy what you have'.
Kudos for bringing out a low cost high value piece of kit, well done.
hello,
i'm very much interested in open baffle speakers with a dsp.
if you stay with a two way speaker the minidsp makes sense,
but in a 3 way speaker it is a expensive (or cheap) as a DCX2496.
i have two question in regard with the minidsp
1) what is the impact of ADC conversion, can you not play music via the usb ? i know the DCX can do that, and i'm mainly interested in doing so.
2)i think the advantage of the DCX over the minidsp is that you can connect a mic to it, and level speaker or room problems. can you do that with the minidsp ?
thanks guys
i'm very much interested in open baffle speakers with a dsp.
if you stay with a two way speaker the minidsp makes sense,
but in a 3 way speaker it is a expensive (or cheap) as a DCX2496.
i have two question in regard with the minidsp
1) what is the impact of ADC conversion, can you not play music via the usb ? i know the DCX can do that, and i'm mainly interested in doing so.
2)i think the advantage of the DCX over the minidsp is that you can connect a mic to it, and level speaker or room problems. can you do that with the minidsp ?
thanks guys
It definately makes sense to be able to measure (naturally amlitude and phase) your speakers for crossover and room correction development.
Take a look at REW (Room EQ Wizard) which has some sort of interface to miniDSP (it will calculate filter and EQ coefficients that can be used in miniDSP software). Only takes a suitable mic and a reasonable soundcard to do measurements.
Take a look at REW (Room EQ Wizard) which has some sort of interface to miniDSP (it will calculate filter and EQ coefficients that can be used in miniDSP software). Only takes a suitable mic and a reasonable soundcard to do measurements.
thanks curryman,
that's sound interesting.
i just wander what happens with my dac ? i feed my dac with an usb signal, and then it has to get digital again and again analog ? that's quite a hassle. isn't there any better solution ?
thanks guys
(ps: is there a site of topic where somebody explains how he managed a two way open baffle with a minidsp; i wonder what about the volume pot, and the two different amps: how do they progress evenly ? yes i'm only at the beginning of my journey)
thanks again
that's sound interesting.
i just wander what happens with my dac ? i feed my dac with an usb signal, and then it has to get digital again and again analog ? that's quite a hassle. isn't there any better solution ?
thanks guys
(ps: is there a site of topic where somebody explains how he managed a two way open baffle with a minidsp; i wonder what about the volume pot, and the two different amps: how do they progress evenly ? yes i'm only at the beginning of my journey)
thanks again
No need to convert and then digitize -- the best options are:
(minidigi + minidsp $160)
spdif/toslink --> minidigi --> minidsp --> minisp digital out to drive your dac for fullrange/wideband + internal dac for a woofer or tweeter
OR if you don't have spdif/toslink out:
(ministreamer + minidigi + minidsp $215)
USB --> miniStreamer -->minidigi --> minidsp --> minisp digital out to drive your dac for fullrange/wideband + internal dac for a woofer or tweeter
OR if you need 24/96 and future flexibility you can substitute the 2x8 for the minidigi (adds about $200).
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