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Reducing Fuzz Box Noise - Boss MT-2
Reducing Fuzz Box Noise - Boss MT-2
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Old Yesterday, 04:11 AM   #221
ITPhoenix is offline ITPhoenix  United States
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New York
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnobuddy View Post
....if it sounds right, it is right. Arc or no arc!

-Gnobuddy
Agreed! That means it might be ok if a ceramic disk cap in the signal path achieves the desired result. Look at this waveform from a cap comparison test of the disk type after the comment,

"Such devices have no place in any audio system. So take care if offered a small ceramic disc, having significantly greater capacitance than the few hundred pF found in conventional ‘Type 1’ ceramic disc capacitors."


Ceramic Disk Capacitor Waveform.PNG


The whole comparison test: Capacitor Sounds -Bateman 2003 caps 100 nF to 1uF.pdf
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Old Yesterday, 04:09 PM   #222
Gnobuddy is offline Gnobuddy  Canada
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Join Date: Mar 2016
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Originally Posted by ITPhoenix View Post
it might be ok if a ceramic disk cap in the signal path achieves the desired result.
Bateman's work came up earlier in this thread. I looked at some of his measurements, and the ones I looked at showed distortion levels hundreds or thousands of times below the threshold of detectability, and therefore, utterly irrelevant.

This particular example - 0.48% THD, the very worst he could manage to drum up - is right at the threshold of detectability by the human ear. The lowest distortion that was detected at a statistically significant level, in properly controlled double-blind listening tests, was about 0.5%. That was using a pure sine-wave signal; with music, 0.5% THD was completely inaudible.

So feel free to use this "terribly bad" ceramic cap in any guitar amp. With a guitar as signal source, and a guitar speaker at the other end of the amp, I'll bet that the 0.48% THD is undetectable by human ears - it could barely be detected with Hi-Fi speakers and a pure sine wave input, it certainly won't be detected with a distorted source (guitar pickup) through heavily compromised speakers (any guitar speaker.)

For reference: a half-12AX7 triode gain stage operated completely "clean", will typically generate 5% THD, ten times more than the most "evil" ceramic cap Bateman found. And we hear even that as "clean" in a guitar amp.

How about for Hi-Fi? There I agree with Bateman's conclusion. THD for the entire electronics chain should be 0.1% or below if possible, so we don't want a single cap generating 0.5% THD.


-Gnobuddy
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Old Yesterday, 04:52 PM   #223
ITPhoenix is offline ITPhoenix  United States
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New York
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnobuddy View Post
....For reference: a half-12AX7 triode gain stage operated completely "clean", will typically generate 5% THD, ten times more than the most "evil" ceramic cap Bateman found. And we hear even that as "clean" in a guitar amp.....

-Gnobuddy
Yes, but do not THD values belie dynamic considerations, such as the effect of distortion stages discussed previously, and the inconsistent distortion in the waveform above? What I'm saying is that the ceramic cap is virtually unnoticeable according to THD in a guitar amp, but there are some who say their amp sounds too sterile, so they add carbon comp resistors in the signal path or maybe the plate to get some "fizz". This is probably indiscernible to most people, but most people don't play high gain guitar.


My Hammond H-100 has nothing but carbon comp resistors and disk caps, and sounds awesome. If I "cleaned" up the signal, it might very well sound like like a $50 Casio. The tube amp is also over-driven slightly which makes it sound more "angry" or "aggressive", especially with the volume up and many draw-bars out. It's almost Jon Lord with Deep Purple sounding. It will not be touched!


But I get what you're saying. If I change the electrolytic signal caps in the fuzz box with film, or replace some lower values with disks, it won't be discernible even to me who is listening for it. The same would go for a over-driven tube amp, as you implied, except "clean" in tube is nowhere near a sterile setup like running a guitar through a HiFi, as long as it's not over-driven with the signal.
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Last edited by ITPhoenix; Yesterday at 05:15 PM.
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