Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Instruments and Amps Everything that makes music, Especially including instrument amps.

Bottle Rocket tube pedal (made by Mesa/Boogie)
Bottle Rocket tube pedal (made by Mesa/Boogie)
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 9th April 2018, 08:29 PM   #21
Printer2 is offline Printer2  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Try this.

TSC in the web
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th April 2018, 05:54 PM   #22
Psicopanque is offline Psicopanque  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Psicopanque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: hell
this one works well, thanks

ps: James/Baxandall FTW!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2018, 05:08 AM   #23
Psicopanque is offline Psicopanque  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Psicopanque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: hell
hello again, sorry for bringing it up by double posting, i have a final question divided into three minor questions that cannot be answered by the duncan tone stack calculator and i think this idea will ultimately fix all my issues regarding this pedal since all i need is a boost and im too busy finishing the mix/recording of our debut album:

- to completely bypass the whole tone stack, is it wise to connect the pre 220k resistor tone sucker before tone stack straight into the volume pot? (i mean: after the 220k resistor theres the tone stack, but i dont know if after the tone stack theres any more important stages for the pedal or if after the TS theres only the volume/output jack)

- if the answer is yes, the 100k volume pot is ideal or i need a different value?

- concerning that slot for optional 20k mid pot that i've put a fixed resistor with higher resistance to act like a semi-raw allenamps effect, can i remove it if i plan to bypass the entire tone stack (the mid slot isnt on the schematic)

thanks in advance

Last edited by Psicopanque; 24th April 2018 at 05:11 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2018, 01:08 PM   #24
Printer2 is offline Printer2  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psicopanque View Post
hello again, sorry for bringing it up by double posting, i have a final question divided into three minor questions that cannot be answered by the duncan tone stack calculator and i think this idea will ultimately fix all my issues regarding this pedal since all i need is a boost and im too busy finishing the mix/recording of our debut album:

- to completely bypass the whole tone stack, is it wise to connect the pre 220k resistor tone sucker before tone stack straight into the volume pot? (i mean: after the 220k resistor theres the tone stack, but i dont know if after the tone stack theres any more important stages for the pedal or if after the TS theres only the volume/output jack)
Yes, no problem

Quote:
- if the answer is yes, the 100k volume pot is ideal or i need a different value?
It doesn't really matter. The 220k and the 10k pot will be acting as a voltage divider, you have way more signal off the last triode and should be fine.

Quote:
- concerning that slot for optional 20k mid pot that i've put a fixed resistor with higher resistance to act like a semi-raw allenamps effect, can i remove it if i plan to bypass the entire tone stack (the mid slot isnt on the schematic)

thanks in advance
Sure.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th April 2018, 05:55 PM   #25
Psicopanque is offline Psicopanque  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Psicopanque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: hell
thanks so much!!! i'll stick the 'voltage divider concept' on my 'next things to study' list, since i have no clues about what it is, but for now, knowing that i can bypass the TS this way, should be enough

btw we are about to finish our recordings, made 100% on samsung galaxy j2 smartphone with no audio interface, mic'ed with akai acm80 > blackstar ht dual tube pedal on clean channel > rca to p2 adapter straight into the headset slot in the phone LOL

we are video recording every step and we plan to release a documentary/making of video alongside the 11 songs album

things left: EQ the basslines (recorded with electric guitar tweaked on tone pot/ amplifier eq)

then record the clean guitars and complementary vocals, eq and mix it all and we're set

btw this demo pre release feature a solo using the bottle rocket pedal (is my main device for solos/booster)

the bassline is raw, un eq'd so expect a little of weirdness/ higher volume than the rest of the mix, but meh... i was tired after 16hrs of recording and mixing stuff

youtube link below for the video, hope yall like

YouTube
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 03:09 PM   #26
Psicopanque is offline Psicopanque  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Psicopanque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: hell
after finishing the edit/mixes and the release of 5 (out of 11) demo tracks from our band, i've decided to take a breath;

then i've accomplished the 'full tone stack bypass mod'

i dunno why, my android phone is not uploading pics, so i'll try to describe how the bypass was done

*detect the .047 brown chiclet/pillow shaped capacitor closest to the 220k resistor tone sucker placed before the tone stack (looking to the side where the components are seen / where the tube sockets have its pins for the valves to be inserted, is located left to the sucker resistor, south from the v2 tube)

*lift the south lug of this detected .047 capacitor, the south lug is the lug closest to the footswitch and the potentiometers;

*solder a wire or something conductive of your choice from the lifted lug of the capacitor mentioned above to the unused lug of the volume potentiometer (the stock settings of the volume potentiometer had two lugs out of three being connected to the circuit and one free lug, unused)

this mod rendered the Bass and Treble controls unusable, a wide, flatter frequency/EQ and more gain/output, much more;

overall, it was worth it;

then i've unsoldered the 220k resistor piggybacked in the v1 tube biasing section, but i've tested the pedal before doing it, to hear the difference;

with the stock settings for the v1 bias, the sound had more compressed and harsh characteristics, i am seriously considering to remake the lower resistance bias mod suggested by our fellow Printer, but i'll experiment a little more before deciding, even so i'm almost sure that its more suitable for my work to lower the v1 bias resistor values, because it makes the pedal closer to a booster;

with or without the changes in v1 resistor bias, there was an issue bothering me a little: the pedal is useable, and have good output, enough to 'expand' any tube amp instead of mushing out like before, BUT... if i raise too much the gain and volume pots, the amp starts to squeal like an overdriven amp on 10 being pushed by a Proco Rat on 10 with the filter on 0

maybe because the bottle rocket is too powerful now, or the highs need to be tamed a bit, or something else that i dont know, so i ask guidance about this subject;

another question: i've seen the schematics again, and it looks like theres no input resistor (i can be wrong)

in case theres really no input resistor or if theres a low Z input resistor, would there be any benefits if i add one or increase the input resistance? if yes, which value could be optimal in theory?

thanks in advance

-Guima;
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 08:49 PM   #27
Printer2 is offline Printer2  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Hey welcome back. The schematic says a 10M resistor, kind of high but when the guitar is plugged in the impedance drops to that of your guitar's volume control. The squealing, try a cap bypassing the plate resistors to find out which stage it is. A design that is stable may not be if you increase the gain, as you have found.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th May 2018, 09:18 PM   #28
Psicopanque is offline Psicopanque  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Psicopanque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: hell
aahh... THAT is the input Z! i see it close to the pin 7, yes... i thought the resistor was something like... in series with the input, such as input > resistor > something else

sorry for my lack of knowledge *laughs*

thanks, i'll experiment this cap bypass thing later and then post the results;

i don't know when i'll do it since the pedal is working even not at 100% and i called it a day, since i've gotta probably disassemble it again to do this cap bypass thing (or its something that can be piggybacked?)

i'm having some trouble here concerning jealous neighbours, i'm in process of moving to another state, i've already contacted the landlord to close the agreement;

but for sure i'll do this experimentation before july, then i gotta do the wahwah @18volts tryout after, too...

i've also had a quick peep about 'voltage dividers' and i kinda understood the shallow concept of it, but theres math involved to fully understand it and it will take about an year or so studying it little by little to claim that i understand it... i quit physics college/university for many reasons... differentials/math is one of them LOL

well thanks alot

best wishes
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th May 2018, 07:17 PM   #29
Psicopanque is offline Psicopanque  Brazil
diyAudio Member
 
Psicopanque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: hell
Default OH MY GOD, PRINTER2!!! I AM YOUR FAN, I SWEAR UR MY MASTER OMFG!!!!

i was obcessed in finishing this pedal.

then i've holded a small ceramic cap, 1k or 0.001uf with pliers and random picked "possible" plate resistors (linked to pin 1&6) from the back of the circuit board, since i was too mentally affected to disassemble it;

without bypass cap, there was squealing and radio frequencies;

the sweet spot was the plate resistor of pin 1 from the first tube, the same v1 tube that you suggested to halve the resistance from pin 6 plate resistor and its cathode aswell;

many caps and values were tested (ceramic, polyester, P.I.O)

i've had to fully scoop mids to 0 in my amp and crank to 10 on bass/treble/presence to confirm if there would be highs rolloff;

before doing so, i've spent the last night studying about this capacitor bypass thing, many techs said its used as last resort, the calculators suggested 1/100th of the resistor value (100k Z = 0.001uf... i might be wrong)

i was shocked with the practical test results:

... 22k (0.022uf) polyester cap for perfectly squeal/radio rolloff without losing the highs!!!

man, i must admit: the halving of v1 pin 6 plate resistor + its cathode + full tonestack bypass + 220k tone stack resistor removal (used to piggyback in parallel with the pin6 resistor) + v1 pin 1 plate resistor cap bypass mod with 22k polyester, resulted in:

ten years gone of tone seeking;

i am so thankful, and i encourage anyone who wouldnt believe this is possible, to try it and see that what i am saying its true

this pedal now acts as an extention of the amplifier, no matter how you EQ the amp (marshal midrangey, fender/mesa scooped, you name it...)

with pre gain and volume controls in the pedal, anything is possible:

-you can crank your amp's single channel naturally into lead drive and use the pedal on lowest gain and volume to 'clean/attenuate' the amp, adding rhythmic/organic very pleasing harmonics;

-you can set your amp clean and use the pedal to add harmonics without clipping

-you can set the amp clean and slam the front of it with the pedal set for any of this options without noise, hum, oscillation ---> boost / overdrive / lead drive / fuzz / lead fuzz (although, when you engage the post lead drive territory theres a slight feedback, which is natural and even pleasing, but not much... very quiet... i was tripping doing some improvisation riffs which reminded sabbath/70's/tony iommi)

-you can set your amp dirty and engage the pedal to add even more gain/harmonics without mushing out into ugly buzzsaw preamp distortion

MAN, I SWEAR IT!!!

this... thing... pedal... is...

the most unique piece of gear i've even heard, seen or experimented

i've tryed almost every boutique gimmicks, pedals, lead channels, etc... nothing compares to this pedal now

theres really much to thank everyone who supported, special thanks to Printer2

woah, Woah WoAHHhhH wtf...

try for yourselves, i swear it!

i hope this thread helps other bottle rocket users and DIYers who try to build it, because...

WOAH!
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2018, 01:53 AM   #30
Printer2 is offline Printer2  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Cool. If you could, because you did so many changes and it might be easy to miss something, maybe print out the schematic and scribble part valued and added, bypassed parts on the schematic. And take a picture of it and post it. It would be good to see the big picture that a schematic can show what you finally achieved. And congratulations, you have gone further than most people would and actually got what you wanted. Not so easy a task with what you started with.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Bottle Rocket tube pedal (made by Mesa/Boogie)Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mesa Boogie Nomad 45 tube amp repair question Planobilly Instruments and Amps 20 7th June 2016 06:28 PM
Mesa Subway Rocket burned up! Help! Corom Instruments and Amps 8 1st August 2014 10:33 AM
Mesa Boogie Subway Rocket. Alvis Instruments and Amps 5 4th February 2013 05:34 PM
Mesa boogie odem81 Instruments and Amps 15 18th April 2010 12:00 AM
My Guitar Tube Amp. Help needed with Mesa/Boogie pre spresv Instruments and Amps 27 15th August 2007 06:10 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:36 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki