There are many variables that change the way a pickup sounds weather it be bad or good.
1. The magnet(s). Ceramic vs alnico etc and how strong they are or aren't
2. The wire. The quality of copper used and the thickness of the coating.
3. The winding. Machine wound bobbins or scatter wound (hand wound).
Also the number of turns has an impact. This changes the resistance value of the coil.
There are others but these are a few of the big ones.
It's mostly an art as to how one would combine the pros and cons of each variable to get the desired sound they are looking for
1. The magnet(s). Ceramic vs alnico etc and how strong they are or aren't
2. The wire. The quality of copper used and the thickness of the coating.
3. The winding. Machine wound bobbins or scatter wound (hand wound).
Also the number of turns has an impact. This changes the resistance value of the coil.
There are others but these are a few of the big ones.
It's mostly an art as to how one would combine the pros and cons of each variable to get the desired sound they are looking for
Hi and thaks for meaningful reply.cadenhead said:
do you think that one could successfully affect the sound by adding external LC components? I think this might change the resonance frequency and quality.
And how about load impedance? Typically pickups are high-impedance loaded, like 500k potentiometer followed by high Z-in amplifier. Are there good reasons for that? How about zero impedance (short circuit current sensing) or something inbetween?
I think it is all Personal Taste...what sounds good to one person sounds awefull to someone else...
Case and Point:
I replaced the stock Les Paul Pickups in my epi Les Paul with a couple no name crap humbucker Pickups I got on e-bay for $3.50 each . after installing them the sound (for me) was 10 times better , much better chunkyier low end and really nice Highs that really cut through , the stock les paul pickups just sounded weak and dull....
Case and Point:
I replaced the stock Les Paul Pickups in my epi Les Paul with a couple no name crap humbucker Pickups I got on e-bay for $3.50 each . after installing them the sound (for me) was 10 times better , much better chunkyier low end and really nice Highs that really cut through , the stock les paul pickups just sounded weak and dull....
darkfenriz said:
I'm rather new to the reasons why things are the way they are with guitar wiring.
I do know that my active Duncan Blackouts in my 7 string came with 25k pots. I just don't know what the circuitry consists if since you would have to destroy them to take a look.
Looks like I need ti get back to the book store and Amazin for more resources as I would like to know also.
From what I suspect, there is a coil resistance, inductance and inter-winding capacitance, so a pickup creates a RLC resonance of frequency and quality dependant on R, L and C.
Does anyone have ideas on a nice ways to play with them?
Maybe negative resistance? or active inductance generator?
Anybody tried manipulating them like this?
Regards,
Adam
Does anyone have ideas on a nice ways to play with them?
Maybe negative resistance? or active inductance generator?
Anybody tried manipulating them like this?
Regards,
Adam
Yes you can.
Here are some ballpark values: The winding capacitance is usually around 10 to 200 pF. The winding resistance for single coil pickups is normally about 6 to 8 kilo-ohms and with humbuckers around 8 to 22 kilo-ohms. The inductance is usually around 2 to 10 henries.
For example,
Generic Telecaster neck pickup: 2H5, 5K, 80pF
Generic Les Paul rhythm pickup: 6H6, 7K, 95pF
The typical component added to the equation is the additional parallel capacitance from the tone control's capacitor (and in lesser effect the capacitances of the guitar cord and amp's input stage). They will affect the resonant circuit and the resonant frequency. Various resistances in the circuit will provide some damping.
You can throw those values into a circuit simulator and play around with the typical tone control and input stage arrangements (include all capacitances you can imagine) and see what effects they have. It will be quite revealing and likely answer most of your questions.
Yes. Too low input impedance will simply attenuate the high frequencies and hence also damp the effects of the resonant circuit. Since the characteristic tone of the pickup is greatly defined by its resonant characteristics you may want to preserve them.
There are so many things that change a pickups sound...type of wood, bridge type,load from value of pots..
good or bad is subjective..
I have done a good bit of experimenting,by ear, as to what capacitors to use in the tone circuit of a guitar..
usual values are from .01mf to .047mf through a potentiometer ,usually 250k -500k, cutting highs to ground.
each increment of .01mf is another 1/4 turn at the end of the pot to my ear..I prefer .01
lately I have experimented with a push pull pot and a .003mf cap to make a high pass in one pos and a traditional tone pot in the other.
I liked it, it cleaned up a boomy neck pup...my brother hated it though....its all personal taste....
good or bad is subjective..
I have done a good bit of experimenting,by ear, as to what capacitors to use in the tone circuit of a guitar..
usual values are from .01mf to .047mf through a potentiometer ,usually 250k -500k, cutting highs to ground.
each increment of .01mf is another 1/4 turn at the end of the pot to my ear..I prefer .01
lately I have experimented with a push pull pot and a .003mf cap to make a high pass in one pos and a traditional tone pot in the other.
I liked it, it cleaned up a boomy neck pup...my brother hated it though....its all personal taste....
another factor in how pickups sound, which is a very wide range variable, the STRINGS......
strings are available in a huge range of sizes (diameter ranges), finishes and most of all formulations of steel. i'm a bass player, and i used to play with primarily flatwound strings, and didn't really have much of an idea of how i liked my bass to sound. another bass player i knew had a habit of replacing his strings before every live gig, even if he had only practiced on them a few hours. he once gave me a used set of his Blue Steel strings. by this time i was using round wound strings because i was beginning to think more about the sound of my bass. these Blue Steel strings, even though they were not up to my friend's standards for a live gig, were like night and day from my old (probably about 6 months old with obvious fret marks) strings. the steel formulation is probably going to be the largest factor in how they sound through various types of pickups. some of this will be from how strong the pickup magnets are, since the magnetic attraction between the string and pickup can actually dampen string motion and change the string's balance of harmonics.
i like to simulate a lot of electronics, but coming up with a magnetic model of a string would have a LOT of variables to consider.
strings are available in a huge range of sizes (diameter ranges), finishes and most of all formulations of steel. i'm a bass player, and i used to play with primarily flatwound strings, and didn't really have much of an idea of how i liked my bass to sound. another bass player i knew had a habit of replacing his strings before every live gig, even if he had only practiced on them a few hours. he once gave me a used set of his Blue Steel strings. by this time i was using round wound strings because i was beginning to think more about the sound of my bass. these Blue Steel strings, even though they were not up to my friend's standards for a live gig, were like night and day from my old (probably about 6 months old with obvious fret marks) strings. the steel formulation is probably going to be the largest factor in how they sound through various types of pickups. some of this will be from how strong the pickup magnets are, since the magnetic attraction between the string and pickup can actually dampen string motion and change the string's balance of harmonics.
i like to simulate a lot of electronics, but coming up with a magnetic model of a string would have a LOT of variables to consider.
Great pickups also sound so good because they have been tweaked to accent the right tones/frequencies from a particular guitar as well. A strat single coil pickup tuned to sound good on a strat etc. Throw it on your tele and it might be a bit ... off. There is certainly artistry to pickup design/tweaking!
what was said by the other fellows is true: its a matter of taste, guitar construction and setup, pickup placement/height, pickups correctly calibrated into the guitar's voicing hot spots, BUT...
there are some aspects that in general make some pickups superior to others:
-low microphonics and oscillation/noises/lack of tightness can be a product of a poorly made pickup... what could cause it?
waxed pickups tend to attenuate this aspects mentioned above... the reason is because the wax prevent the windings to move or to be too loose, it also prevents interferences a little... the waxing also fills short gaps on the pickup slugs/screws, so these parts have less variations in position, resulting in a tighter feel;
the kind of wax affects a bit on voicing, but not much (parafin clearer, beeswax darker sounding)
some tone purists dislike waxed pickups also, its more common to find amongst their gear, neck pickups unwaxed and semiwaxed
i've heard some gimmicks (or not) about tonal differences from smaller things such as applying wooden spacers like the pickups were made decades ago;
baseplates also affect the pickup a little, the same for nickel covers and steel telecaster bridges, these help the sound to have a denser feel due to smoothing the highs a little;
magnet type, magnet finish (raw, polished, semi cast), slug size, screw material, everything impacts...
the quality of the electronic installation also make a big difference, try to use braided wires and solder it all into a lead dress pattern, every hot lead insulated with braided going into the grounds;
the potentiometer values also have a big role into the pickups ressonant peak;
for example: the JB is optimal with 250k pots, but i use it with 500k volume wired 50's style with 2 caps (one pio 22k measuring 28k lol + one poly 22k) going to 500k tone pot, so the tone pot pulls the resonant peak back into the 250k area, retaining the high headroom of the 500k volume without 'ice-pickness'
when our fellows from DIY audio forums quoted their opinions slightly off the 'electrical terms' asked by the topic creator, i'd say its really valid answers, since the major effects from good pickups come from these citations, a little drifted from pure electric theory;
in resume: every single aspect of the pickup seem to impact the overall tone, every single aspect of the instrument and setup too... the feel of the player and it's brains into it also determine a big difference in the results;
there are some aspects that in general make some pickups superior to others:
-low microphonics and oscillation/noises/lack of tightness can be a product of a poorly made pickup... what could cause it?
waxed pickups tend to attenuate this aspects mentioned above... the reason is because the wax prevent the windings to move or to be too loose, it also prevents interferences a little... the waxing also fills short gaps on the pickup slugs/screws, so these parts have less variations in position, resulting in a tighter feel;
the kind of wax affects a bit on voicing, but not much (parafin clearer, beeswax darker sounding)
some tone purists dislike waxed pickups also, its more common to find amongst their gear, neck pickups unwaxed and semiwaxed
i've heard some gimmicks (or not) about tonal differences from smaller things such as applying wooden spacers like the pickups were made decades ago;
baseplates also affect the pickup a little, the same for nickel covers and steel telecaster bridges, these help the sound to have a denser feel due to smoothing the highs a little;
magnet type, magnet finish (raw, polished, semi cast), slug size, screw material, everything impacts...
the quality of the electronic installation also make a big difference, try to use braided wires and solder it all into a lead dress pattern, every hot lead insulated with braided going into the grounds;
the potentiometer values also have a big role into the pickups ressonant peak;
for example: the JB is optimal with 250k pots, but i use it with 500k volume wired 50's style with 2 caps (one pio 22k measuring 28k lol + one poly 22k) going to 500k tone pot, so the tone pot pulls the resonant peak back into the 250k area, retaining the high headroom of the 500k volume without 'ice-pickness'
when our fellows from DIY audio forums quoted their opinions slightly off the 'electrical terms' asked by the topic creator, i'd say its really valid answers, since the major effects from good pickups come from these citations, a little drifted from pure electric theory;
in resume: every single aspect of the pickup seem to impact the overall tone, every single aspect of the instrument and setup too... the feel of the player and it's brains into it also determine a big difference in the results;
ok buddy, i've found this masterpiece on the link below
BuildYourGuitar.com :: The Secrets of Electric Guitar Pickups
enj0y
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