G'Day Guys,
First off, I don't play electric guitar, so I don't really know what is important in a guitar amp. My 12 year old son plays acoustic guitar and wants to learn electric. I see the opportunity to build an amp! From what I gather, much of the "tube sound" in a guitar amp comes when you drive it hard, so a large amp to practice at home will probably not sound the best? So, for use at home, at volume levels that are not going to drive me insane, what do people recommend? I am thinking maybe a Fender champ or princeton narrow panel, or maybe a marshall 18.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers,
Chris
First off, I don't play electric guitar, so I don't really know what is important in a guitar amp. My 12 year old son plays acoustic guitar and wants to learn electric. I see the opportunity to build an amp! From what I gather, much of the "tube sound" in a guitar amp comes when you drive it hard, so a large amp to practice at home will probably not sound the best? So, for use at home, at volume levels that are not going to drive me insane, what do people recommend? I am thinking maybe a Fender champ or princeton narrow panel, or maybe a marshall 18.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Cheers,
Chris
Hi Chris,
I have just gone through this process myself for my 10 year old boy. I have a coupe of mates who are really into guitar playing and they both came up with the same amp.
This is what I was looking for -
A classic, proven design
Something that can play loud but also sounds good a low volume
A nice Bluesy sound
Something with a bit of character
Both recommended the Fender tweed deluxe - and both own these amps as well.
I looked into the complete DIY option, and the more I looked the more obvious it became that a kit was the way to go.
I ordered a complete kit (including replica cabinet) from Mojo Musical Supplies (http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/) for about $700. There is an Australian company that does it as well but they are significantly more expensive.
Now, I ordered the amp about 6 weeks ago and it has not been sent yet as they are awaiting an export (240v) transformer so I am a little disappointed with the time but they have not charged my credit card yet and they have been very prompt and courteous with their emails and quite apologetic.
I have attached a schematic but I think that the one that they sell is the slightly later (but very similar) model.
Hope this helps. Have a look at the site under the kit section. Lots of options and prices as well.
Cheers,
Rob
I have just gone through this process myself for my 10 year old boy. I have a coupe of mates who are really into guitar playing and they both came up with the same amp.
This is what I was looking for -
A classic, proven design
Something that can play loud but also sounds good a low volume
A nice Bluesy sound
Something with a bit of character
Both recommended the Fender tweed deluxe - and both own these amps as well.
I looked into the complete DIY option, and the more I looked the more obvious it became that a kit was the way to go.
I ordered a complete kit (including replica cabinet) from Mojo Musical Supplies (http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/) for about $700. There is an Australian company that does it as well but they are significantly more expensive.
Now, I ordered the amp about 6 weeks ago and it has not been sent yet as they are awaiting an export (240v) transformer so I am a little disappointed with the time but they have not charged my credit card yet and they have been very prompt and courteous with their emails and quite apologetic.
I have attached a schematic but I think that the one that they sell is the slightly later (but very similar) model.
Hope this helps. Have a look at the site under the kit section. Lots of options and prices as well.
Cheers,
Rob
Thanks for the info.
I think I have most of the parts available to make one of these. Just need an output transformer and speaker. The cabinet looks like it is nothing more than a box without a back. The chassis and wiring for the amps look a quite agricultural. Chassis as ground, heaters grounded to chassis etc. Do these things hum like crazy?
Anyway, looks like a fun project!
Cheers,
Chris
I think I have most of the parts available to make one of these. Just need an output transformer and speaker. The cabinet looks like it is nothing more than a box without a back. The chassis and wiring for the amps look a quite agricultural. Chassis as ground, heaters grounded to chassis etc. Do these things hum like crazy?
Anyway, looks like a fun project!
Cheers,
Chris
Wouldnt it be easier to just grab an Epiphone Valve Junior off ebay and mod/voice it as desired?
These can usually be purchased in new to near new condition for under $150.00.
There are hundreds of mods & upgrades posted on various web sites.
This amp was responsable for a heck of a lot of guys getting their feet wet in Valve amps and mods.
Just a thought.
These can usually be purchased in new to near new condition for under $150.00.
There are hundreds of mods & upgrades posted on various web sites.
This amp was responsable for a heck of a lot of guys getting their feet wet in Valve amps and mods.
Just a thought.
Thanks for the suggestion Trout, however I live in Australia and 240volt mains and international shipping will add to the pain.
I know my son thinks I am a bit of a geek, but I know if we build an amp together he will secretly boast to his friends (when I am not around) "my dad and I built this thing". Truth is, I like building things too
While I have your attention, are there any sonic benefits of single ended vs push pull for guitar amps?
Thanks again guys!
Chris
I know my son thinks I am a bit of a geek, but I know if we build an amp together he will secretly boast to his friends (when I am not around) "my dad and I built this thing". Truth is, I like building things too
While I have your attention, are there any sonic benefits of single ended vs push pull for guitar amps?
Thanks again guys!
Chris
Firefly
The Firefly is an excellent little amp - distorts nicely and is not too loud.
I built one for my son, and it has launched a frenzy of amp building. Lots of fun, and his guitar teacher is impressed!
Also have a look at www.generalguitargadgets.com for neat effects to build.
Ian
The Firefly is an excellent little amp - distorts nicely and is not too loud.
I built one for my son, and it has launched a frenzy of amp building. Lots of fun, and his guitar teacher is impressed!
Also have a look at www.generalguitargadgets.com for neat effects to build.
Ian
I was just thinking of putting together a low power guitar amp myself. I have an old Stromberg-Carlson PA amp that I've converted into guitar service. Only downside so far is I have to turn it up to a mind-bending volume to get nice distortion out of the 6L6 tubes. I've also owned a PP EL84 Peavey Classic 20 that should be just enough up against a drum kit, unless you want a clean sound.
I don't gig anymore, so I was thinking of something like a 6aq5 PP design based on one of the fender 6v6 amps like the Blues Jr., or Princeton. The Champ is an SE amp that is well regarded.
I'm only interested in PP because I've already got spare OPT's, but I think that a 6L6 based SE amp would be very nice if you don't need a lot of volume.
Seriously though. People just toss out the old tube PA amps, and after modifications they make good guitar amps.
I don't gig anymore, so I was thinking of something like a 6aq5 PP design based on one of the fender 6v6 amps like the Blues Jr., or Princeton. The Champ is an SE amp that is well regarded.
I'm only interested in PP because I've already got spare OPT's, but I think that a 6L6 based SE amp would be very nice if you don't need a lot of volume.
Seriously though. People just toss out the old tube PA amps, and after modifications they make good guitar amps.
I was in a similar situation to yours when I started building an amp for my grandson. He wanted to gig with it in small venues and needed preamp out for patching into the band's PA for bigger venues. I built what amounts to a Marshall 18W using 6V6 instead of EL84 driving a 12" Eminence Man O War and a modified plexi front end with cascading switch.
That thing is loud! Sounds very sweet I think and he loves it. For a bedroom amp it is a bit much though so I agree with the idea of either a small SE unit like the AX84 projects or one of the PP designs that use small signal tubes for the output to provide mW output.
You can see some of my journey in the following locations...
Amp up and running - Note: post number 3 has a lnk to the schematic
Link with some technical discussion and nice pics
The folks at both 18watt.com and the AX84 forums were extremely helpful throughout my project. Best of luck.
That thing is loud! Sounds very sweet I think and he loves it. For a bedroom amp it is a bit much though so I agree with the idea of either a small SE unit like the AX84 projects or one of the PP designs that use small signal tubes for the output to provide mW output.
You can see some of my journey in the following locations...
Amp up and running - Note: post number 3 has a lnk to the schematic
Link with some technical discussion and nice pics
The folks at both 18watt.com and the AX84 forums were extremely helpful throughout my project. Best of luck.
I could really annoy my parents with a Fender Champ when I was 12. Especially after I was done with it. I could make the tubes glow even then. But I didn't understand why it blew up when I put a 6L6 in it (fried the power transformer).
Seriously, as suggested before, go to a shop that sells amps. Let him hear several to find the sound that he likes. A metal head, a blues player, and a rythm player will all pick out a different amp.
The "sound" comes from the reaction of the tubes, OPT and speaker, especially as they leave the linear region. Change any one of these and you change the sound.
Thanks Ian,
Appreciate the offer to speak this weekend, but unfortunately I am flying out to Hong Kong and Singapore in the morning. At least I will be able to scrounge for parts while away! Interested in sources for the speaker in Aus, saves shipping. One of the previous forum posts suggests a Celestion Rocket 50 or Seventy 80. AES have them for $50 and $70 respectively (plus shipping!).
I have just bought a house with my partner, so funds a little tight, and also will be shifting all my stuff over in late August. Will have to set up workshop again, but when it is set up I will be able to build the cabinet myself.
Since I will be scrounging for parts overseas, I have a 290-0-290 150mA transformer that I was intending to use. From the AES catalogue it looks like the Fender Deluxe uses a 330-0-330 transformer. It uses a 5Y3 rectifier. I have some 5Z4 rectifiers that should give the same B+ with the lower voltage transformer. Is there something special about a 5Y3? It looks like it is used a lot in those Fender amps. Is this what gives the "sag"? Would be good to be able to use parts I have on hand.
Good suggestion to take him to a shop and let him see what sound he likes!
Thanks again, l am impressed by all the input!
Chris
Appreciate the offer to speak this weekend, but unfortunately I am flying out to Hong Kong and Singapore in the morning. At least I will be able to scrounge for parts while away! Interested in sources for the speaker in Aus, saves shipping. One of the previous forum posts suggests a Celestion Rocket 50 or Seventy 80. AES have them for $50 and $70 respectively (plus shipping!).
I have just bought a house with my partner, so funds a little tight, and also will be shifting all my stuff over in late August. Will have to set up workshop again, but when it is set up I will be able to build the cabinet myself.
Since I will be scrounging for parts overseas, I have a 290-0-290 150mA transformer that I was intending to use. From the AES catalogue it looks like the Fender Deluxe uses a 330-0-330 transformer. It uses a 5Y3 rectifier. I have some 5Z4 rectifiers that should give the same B+ with the lower voltage transformer. Is there something special about a 5Y3? It looks like it is used a lot in those Fender amps. Is this what gives the "sag"? Would be good to be able to use parts I have on hand.
Good suggestion to take him to a shop and let him see what sound he likes!
Thanks again, l am impressed by all the input!
Chris
Chris,
Yes the 5Y3 is used to give "Sag" or as we middle age (plus) guitar types like to say to give "Compression" (Sag is not a topic we like to talk about although I prefer "Athletes Sag" to "Middle Age Spread"). It has a high internal impedance and voltage drop so the B+ line "sags" when you hit a string hard and gives you power amp compression and as the note dies away the power supply recovers and gives you some sustain. This is part of the vintage "Blues" sound.
Celestion's Oz agents are listed as:
Next Entertainment Technology
Unit 2, 98 Old Pittwater Rd, Brookvale NSW 2100 Australia
Telephone: +61 2 9905 5997
Fax: +61 2 9905 9440
I note that Cannon Sound also stocks them.
One of my guitar playing buddies here in Adelaide has just finished a Kit Amp - he bought it in from Ted Webber in the US. He was impressed with the kit and the resulting amp.
Cheers,
Ian
Yes the 5Y3 is used to give "Sag" or as we middle age (plus) guitar types like to say to give "Compression" (Sag is not a topic we like to talk about although I prefer "Athletes Sag" to "Middle Age Spread"). It has a high internal impedance and voltage drop so the B+ line "sags" when you hit a string hard and gives you power amp compression and as the note dies away the power supply recovers and gives you some sustain. This is part of the vintage "Blues" sound.
Celestion's Oz agents are listed as:
Next Entertainment Technology
Unit 2, 98 Old Pittwater Rd, Brookvale NSW 2100 Australia
Telephone: +61 2 9905 5997
Fax: +61 2 9905 9440
I note that Cannon Sound also stocks them.
One of my guitar playing buddies here in Adelaide has just finished a Kit Amp - he bought it in from Ted Webber in the US. He was impressed with the kit and the resulting amp.
Cheers,
Ian
Chris,
You can obtain the "sag" from the 5Z4 by holding the capacitance value down in the 1st position of the PSU filter. CLC construction is best and something like 3.3 or 2.2 μF. in the 1st position achieves the goal.
At the start of this thread, you mentioned wanting an amp that's not excessively loud. IMO, Leo Fender's early "Champ" nicely fills the requirement. A pictorial showing all the "Champ" voltages is here.
You can obtain the "sag" from the 5Z4 by holding the capacitance value down in the 1st position of the PSU filter. CLC construction is best and something like 3.3 or 2.2 μF. in the 1st position achieves the goal.
At the start of this thread, you mentioned wanting an amp that's not excessively loud. IMO, Leo Fender's early "Champ" nicely fills the requirement. A pictorial showing all the "Champ" voltages is here.
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