Buget Headphoneamp/Headphones

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Hello all,

After experimenting with a small headphone amp called the "headbanger", I realized the importance of using a external headphone amp along with my computer and Ipod.

About a year ago i bought a pair of Bose in-ear headphones, It was my first taste of acceptable sound coming from a pair of headphones, at that time I hardly knew anything at all. One year later, I'm still using these headphones, Only with a new jack and hockey tape everywhere:D, I think it's time for a change. I've been playing arround with DIY audio for about a half a year so far (and general audio research), and i believe i have the experience to create my own headphone amp(and get some new cans).

I've looked at a couple of examples from AMB labs, DIYfourms and others. My budget is around $500(CAD), I should note that I am a student going into grade 12 and currently saving for higher education. I normally listen to Light rock to Metal (Dave Matthews band to Opeth). I don't particular know what headphones I would need to get in-order to get the optimum quality in this area.

As for headphone amps, I've complied a small list of the possibles:
-M3
-B22
-Starving student (I heard that it may damage sources, is this true?)
-Millett Hybrid MiniMAX

These are the only ones that have really impressed me, Visually, or I can only remember these at the moment, I'm open to suggestions...

For headphones, I've mostly been looking at brands like:
-AKG
-Grado Labs (I'd have to travel across the boarder to get these at a "Proper" price)
-Sennheiser
-Audio technica

I'm not quite sure how to narrow the results, Or how to discover other headphones that should deserve my attention, other then ask other people and there valuable opinions.

Thanks,
Kurts
[SIZE=-1][FONT=arial,helvetica]
[/FONT][/SIZE]
 
I would suggest the Senn HD600 won't bust your budget and will put you firmly in "audiophile quality" headphones - they are basically competent and not strongly "colored"
I wouldn't get caught up in buying headphones for particular genre - you can always apply equalization to linear, low distortion headphones without big frequency response holes if you really need the emphasis

the HD600 can be driven competently by some DIP op amps so even the simplest DIY amp could be fine - I would like to see > +/-10 V of clean drive, requiring >30 mA output current

"Multiloop" IC or discrete buffer inside a op amp feedback loop would be the next possible quality step that is also a easy DIY project

see HeadWize Library - Projects

you could go to headfi.org and get many more subjective opinions but I would urge you to realize there is much enthusiasm but little justification of their dominant "just listen" rabid (and naive) subjectivism


(I predict this thread won't reach page 2 without someone complaining +/-10 V into HD600 "will make you deaf" - these people really should look up "dynamic headroom" - excellent recordings, capturing live event dynamics, can have 20 dB peak to average SPL range - no amplifier clipping with audiophile recordings seems very little to ask)
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply Jcx,

I think I'll try my luck at Headfi, I understand that this isn't the best place for more DIY Headphones/Amps (Not DIY headphones :p).

Thanks for the tips for the headphone amp, A did quite a bit of research about dynamic headroom and looked up product reviews for the HD600's.

I'll keep researching,
Thanks!
 
Disabled Account
Joined 2006
An alternative view to that given by jcx:
It's worth while remembering that most folks listen at 70 - 80 dB, so if you do too then peaks of +25 are never going to take you above 105 dB. So why bother creating an amp that will allow your 'phones to reach 120 db when you will either never need it or need it for only 0.01% of your time. Your choice of course.

Regarding 'phones it is difficult to say, although I always find Grados uncomfortable. Certainly the HD600 is fine, as is the HD650. If you intend to use them for any length of time the comfort aspect is obviously going to be important, so buying something that you have tried and found comfy is better than buying blind on the recommendation of others.

To your list of amps consider adding the Cavalli-Kan Kumisa 3 (The Cavalli-Kan Kumisa III Stereo Headphone Amplifier). It is a neat open-loop design that works well.

Finally, if you choose 'phones that are quite sensitive, and have a source that can kick out 2V RMS, then you may not actually need voltage amplification, just impedance conversion. In which case look up 'source follower'. Here is a good thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphones/95841-mosfet-follower-headphone-amplifier.html . You could try the simple circuit in post #1, or be a bit more adventurous and look to the circuit in post post #27.


Good luck.
 
Thanks Gordy,

I was putting an order together on AMB for a mini3(for a friend), I'll give the Cavalli-Kan Kumisa 3 a go, I'm not in a huge rush to get parts. Expect it to be done some three to six months from now :D

I thought that most sources output 2Vs. I will mostly use my PC for audio, from there I will have the possibility to use a external DAC (using SPDIF) or use the internal soundcard. I was also going to make somekind of LOD for my ipod, unfortunately It's almost impossible to get digital out for it.

I'll attempt to see if i can listen to some HD 600's, I might do that after i get i finish the headphone amp. I wont try to keep a one track mind looking for just the HD 600's though. The more the merrier.

Thanks,
Kurtis
 
I do listen direct from computer or iPod with Sony SA5000, with lower Z and higher sensitivity they match lower V source unamped better than the HD600

but they are a little pricier and have some frequency response oddities - the very polarized love or hate opinion range on the SA5000 at head-fi may be justified
 
Once I build a phenomenal headphone amp I will most likely never go unamped again :D

The CK2III, M3 and beta 22 have been mentioned many times in the same sentence as K701. I just need to decided between the three which i want to build, It seems that all three can drive any kind of headphone. The CK2III is most defiantly the easiest to build of the three, but i don't know if it's worthwhile to step up to the M3 or the beta 22... I generally don't like the design of the M3 for some reason, I'd rather build a 2 channel beta 22. The only downside is the beta 22 is expensive and a very large project...

I hope I'm not going overboard on this...
 
I think you need to take more of a stepping tone before taking a leap like that..

bose in ear headphones are basically crap in comparison to all the other headphones you've mentioned.

Furthermore, you need to realize that the K701 and the HD600 are VERY VERY VERY (VERY) different.

Be sure to do all your research. I recommend you make some posts over at head-fi.org, where you will get better results in relation to these topics.


Furthermore, I may be ignorant, but I don't see many people with 2 channel beta22's... and most that do get them, end up selling them off in favor of 3 or 4 channel setups.
I would recommend you make a smaller amp... Maybe a millet (if you go with the K701's) before making something like the beta22.
 
Last edited:
I use k702 driven by the headphone output of my sony cd/dvd player (not portable), works fine. In most ways it smokes any loudspeakers setup you can make (crossover problems, acoustics). Too bad I want my sound out and in front of me with impactfull bass (not subwoofer bass), otherwise I could stop my audio obsession.

My path went from junk to senn hd-280pro to senn hd-555 to akg k702 62 ohm (yes they need 200-300 hours to break in, less bass and detail otherwise).

I'm too much into speakers, amps, crossovers, horns, and full range drivers to upgrade the headphone thing.

My kid teased me about the akgs (and price) till he heard them, then said flatly "(pause) those are really good."

Are the akg 2-3 times better than the hd-555 ? Nope, but they are better and worth the upgrade in my opinion. But the bumps on the head touching headband bothered my head after a few hours. I don't headphone listen that long and have read that you can wrap the bumps with tape. I'm suprised when designing them that this never came up. For the cost, there may be better headphones depending on what criteria you want (bass, treble, transparancy, distortion, etc).

Norman
 
yea, based on my current setup, I'd say the akgs are twice better than hd-555.

But thanks for the tip.
Someday if I want better, I'll get one.

What amp would you recommend for the akg k-702 ?
Or what amp within these brackets?
$100-$200, $200-$300, and lastly $300-$500 range ?

Norman
 
Disabled Account
Joined 2006
Furthermore, I may be ignorant, but I don't see many people with 2 channel beta22's... and most that do get them, end up selling them off in favor of 3 or 4 channel setups.

You are obviously not ignorant, but in my opinion you have overlooked something here. The problem with head-fi is 'flavour-of-the-month' and 'enthusiastic fan-boy' syndrome. People are enthusiastic, which is fine, but then in their enthusiasm they go on about things they don't fully understand and state sentiment as if is fact. This applies squarely to active-ground (3 channel) and bridge-tied-load (4 channel) Beta 22 headphone amplifiers.

The whole bridge-tied-load thing (often wrongly labeled 'balanced') is just misguided with headphone amplifiers. People often change many things at once and then automatically attribute any perceived improvement to a 'balanced amplifier' without knowing where the perceived improvement actually came from.

The best possible performance will happen when the following are done together...

1. Headphones are re-wired to split the grounds of the left and right channels. This always requires re-termination and sometimes requires re-cabling of the headphones. [This is often wrongly labeled as 'balanced'].

2. Separate ground connections provided on the amplifier. This is typically possible with 1 x 4 pole XLR or 2 x 3 pole XLR.

3. The amplifier is internally configured with separate low impedance left and right wire runs from the ground connections on output connectors directly back to the main power supply 'star' point.

4. The amplifier has 2 channel (un-balanced) active circuits, ideally with separate voltage regulators for the left and right channels.

5. The amplifier has a volume control that has very tight matching of the left / right sections.


No amp channel 'balancing', no bridge-tied-load, no active ground, etc., etc..

(If you need an actual balanced input from your source, use a transformer from Sowter, Jensen, etc., to convert balanced to un-balanced at the input).


I am sure this will confuse some head-fi lurkers here (hello boys and girls) who have been force-fed a diet of 'it must be balanced'. My only intent is to help, so hopefully this will encourage some to stop and question the marketing and over-hyped blurb. Maybe some will be encouraged to build optimally wired split-ground 2 channel Beta 22 amps (with matching split-ground headphones). You will not be able to join the enthusiastic "I've got a maxed out 6 channel blah, blah, blah" gang, but you will be able to relax and enjoy the best possible performance.

:)
 
yea, based on my current setup, I'd say the akgs are twice better than hd-555.

But thanks for the tip.
Someday if I want better, I'll get one.

What amp would you recommend for the akg k-702 ?
Or what amp within these brackets?
$100-$200, $200-$300, and lastly $300-$500 range ?

Norman

You should go make a thread over at head-fi and ask this same question.

AKG K701 isn't one of the headphones I've ever looked closely at, and it;s suppose to be finicky about amps.
That said, I do remember reading about millet hybrid amps working well.
 
I think I have what headphones phones I should look at undercontrol, I defiantly need an amp before I go to a store and test any of these headphones otherwise I won't get a impression of what it will sound in the end. I think It would be best to decided what good all-around Headphone amp would be.

-Millett Hybrid MiniMAX
-Cavalli-Kan Kumisa III

I've narrowed it down to just these two, the beta 22 would be in the list if it wasn't such an overwhelming project and expensive project. I would love more recommendations, I haven't build that much audio equipment, peoples opinions are very valuable to me.

Thanks for the list of tips Gordy, I will be sure to wire the amp with what has been described.

Thanks!
 
I think I have what headphones phones I should look at undercontrol, I defiantly need an amp before I go to a store and test any of these headphones otherwise I won't get a impression of what it will sound in the end. I think It would be best to decided what good all-around Headphone amp would be.

-Millett Hybrid MiniMAX
-Cavalli-Kan Kumisa III

I've narrowed it down to just these two, the beta 22 would be in the list if it wasn't such an overwhelming project and expensive project. I would love more recommendations, I haven't build that much audio equipment, peoples opinions are very valuable to me.

Thanks for the list of tips Gordy, I will be sure to wire the amp with what has been described.

Thanks!

I have the MOSFET-MAX board but haven't built it up yet. I'm just not thrilled with the limitations imposed by the miniMAX. It's limited to BJTs, which are fine, but only 1" heat sinks so you can't really bias much higher than 40mA or so. My MOSFET-MAX will deviate from the standard BOM by a fairly wide margin to improve performance, but after I trial some different BJT and MOSFET Diamond Buffers in it, it's being sold off.

The other amp I would add to the list is the Aikido 24V. A simple build WRT parts count, but it's a little more complicated if you deviate from the 24V and 6DJ8 tubes since some values change, but John Broskie clearly documents what changes need to be made for most common alternate tubes like 12BH7 or 6922s. The performance of the Aikido 24V will be much better than the MiniMAX for about the same cost to build, plus the Aikido is easier to set up as a preamp.

Anything design by or in partnership with Cavalli is a great amp. His SOHA II and EHHA are fantastic amps though more complex to build.

The Beta 22 has never impressed me for the cost to build and it's propensity to go up in smoke. Many magic fairies escape when commissioning B22s and they also like to escape if you unplug the headphones with the amp powered up.

WRT to headphones, I preferred the K601s over the K501s/701s/702s and the vintage K401s were even nicer than the K601s. I love the AKG sound sig and had as many as 8 AKGs at one point, but now I'm down to a set of vintage K141s with Sextett drivers that are being heavily modded. I sold the K401s only because I bought vintage Stax normal bias SR-Lambdas and they had a little extended highs and were faster than the K401s, otherwise on my system they had a nearly identical sound sig, which is a great. Used K401s sell for around $100-$125 on Head-Fi so that frees up a nice chunk of your budget for the amp.
 
Last edited:
yea, based on my current setup, I'd say the akgs are twice better than hd-555.

But thanks for the tip.
Someday if I want better, I'll get one.

What amp would you recommend for the akg k-702 ?
Or what amp within these brackets?
$100-$200, $200-$300, and lastly $300-$500 range ?

Norman

How much do you want to DIY?

Budgets are hard to tie down. You can build a EHHA for $300 or so if you're good at scrounging parts and use reasonable tubes or you can blow it past $800 with boutique parts, NOS super tubes, custom iron, and custom chassis work.

I'm biased, but I like the Bottlehead, Aikido, and Cavalli Audio kits, especially the Cavalli Audio designs as I have three of his amps in the cue. Plenty of options within those 3 three designers to find an amp in your budget. Another under-rated, but good designer is Steve Deckert and his Decware kits are reasonable and sound very good.

Audiophile Tube Amps and Tube Gear from DECWARE

I didn't find my AKGs terribly difficult to drive, but my main headphones are all orthodynamics so they need much more power than dynamics like the AKGs.
 
Last edited:
I'm going to build an M³ and σ11 with bass boost seeing how the K701 are known to be bass-light. I have the BOM (excel) completed and updated. PM me if you wish to see the BOM. I think I will post a step-by-step log of this build sometime in October.

Total cost is around $230 more or less excluding shipping and chassis (I salvaged a chassis from somewhere).
 
Very much interested in the BOM, for curiosity reasons

I've decide to build a [FONT=arial,helvetica][SIZE=-2]β22 [/SIZE][/FONT]. I understand that this project is going to to immensely expensive. Although for all the parts It's only going to cost me around $300 for Boards, parts and hardware, It's the casework that's going to be the toughest/expensive (and I'm making a stepped attenuator). I also understand that I'm practically building this amp to break it. I've done the research.

Cheers!
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.