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GB for Virtins MI Pro for RTX6001 autoranging/autoscaling & for soundcard end users

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Hanning vs. Hann naming & Thank you to Alan :)

Hello Everyone,

Based on Alan’s posting (# 18) in this MI Pro GB forum, I have contacted my Virtins POC (the main programmer of MI, i.e., a person with a PhD degree in engineering) and he stated the below:

Dear MI Pro, thank you for notifying me about the “Hanning” issue. This actually made me open my dusty DSP book used in the university. It used ”Hanning”, which pronounced the same as its translated Chinese characters “汉宁. I always think Hann is a short form of Hanning ;-). See the link here:

Hann (Hanning) window - MATLAB hann

Having said the above, I will change “Hanning” to “Hann” in the MI software and in the MI manual. The software will be updated in the next week.

So thank you goes out to Alan for making this salient point!

V/R,

MI Pro
 
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Hi All,
I'm actually very surprised there aren't more takers for this package. The integration alone is worth $200 easy, that's as an add-on if you buy the regular package at list!

At this point I'm wondering if people aren't actually grasping the importance of integration between the software and hardware. People, this is HUGE!

-Chris
 
Hi All,
I'm actually very surprised there aren't more takers for this package. The integration alone is worth $200 easy, that's as an add-on if you buy the regular package at list!

At this point I'm wondering if people aren't actually grasping the importance of integration between the software and hardware. People, this is HUGE!

-Chris

I'll likely join in. There is a lot of detail to digest and the closure date is not near. There are important decisions to make about the options and $$ involved. I started to extract the signup table in pdf and haven't yet figured out how to easily get the table into an email, for example. I suspect there will be more takers who, like me, need a bit of time to get all the ducks lined up!

BK
 
takers who, like me, need a bit of time to get all the ducks lined up!
like me...
I did try MI a while ago - lot of features... lot of unexpected results... lot of questions...
The "package game" didn't make it easier to decide... Got the impression I shloud buy the full package - difficult...
Having an USB stick seems to be required...
Above .pdf states: "(just don’t lose your MI Pro USB dongle :))." - what in case the stick gets lost or doesn't work anymore for whatever reason?
TIA
 
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Hi everyone,
Yes, I needed to look at the various add-ons to decide too. In the end, I already have a good LCR meter, so all I would need is the package called "Device Test Plan". If I were to get the packages for speaker work as well I would buy the complete package. I'd love to, but I can't afford it right now. The basic package offered is the "Multi-Instrument Pro", with integration to the RTX-6001 and the USB dongle. Should you lose it I would guess that it would cost $40 to replace along with some discussion to prove you had the packages to begin with.

Hi BK,
I started to extract the signup table in pdf and haven't yet figured out how to easily get the table into an email, for example.
I wondered about that too. But I use Thunderbird, and it allows me to create a table. So I copied the table headers and filled in the information in the cells below. MI Pro said it was easy to follow. I'll try and attach the table to this post as a cut and paste ...
Name
Address
email
# Lic
# Add on Modules
# full pkgs
Chris Bridge
<Address>
<Email>
1
1 - (4) Device Test Plan
0
Of course this was nicely arranged in a table with the headings and the information underneath. I removed my address and email address from this example. I imagine you could just line it up the way it pasted here, but put your information on the same line as the heading.

As I mentioned earlier, I bought ARTA, and while it works fine there is a lot it doesn't do, and you have to set each test up and run it manually. A real PITA compared with what MI will do. So my budget is already shot with the price of ARTA. I guess I'll try and use ARTA for something, otherwise it's money down the tubes for being able to use the RTX for only a few months. In a perfect world, MI Pro would have been available at the start with the integration for the RTX. It just didn't come down this way.

I'm very excited about this software. I can hardly wait until the GB is done and the software development is finished!

-Chris
 
I am likely in as well but I fear the lack of a perceived deal will keep the GB small. The automation is reason in itself but people have a hard time paying for software which is crazy because that is where a good portion of the value resides. Would love to have the automation for the RTX.
 
Virtins will assist you with tech spt if you have problems

like me...
I did try MI a while ago - lot of features... lot of unexpected results... lot of questions...
The "package game" didn't make it easier to decide... Got the impression I shloud buy the full package - difficult...
Having an USB stick seems to be required...
Above .pdf states: "(just don’t lose your MI Pro USB dongle :))." - what in case the stick gets lost or doesn't work anymore for whatever reason?
TIA

Dear Modmix,

Thank you for your posting / comments. If you had unexpected results and questions when using MI in the past I would respectfully request you post them here or send an email to my AOL address and I'll follow-up with you or have Virtins themselves post a response.

As with any good measurement protocol, any results one obtains should be able to be replicated (provided the settings / test conditions are all the same). Vitrins is VERY good about technical support to their customers, but even if you were using a trail version and ran into a result you were not expecting / had questions, etc., please feel free to post your MI settings and test conditions in as much detail as possible, and Virtins will get involved and see if they can replicate the issues and/or help you to solve it. They really stand behind their products they sell with superb technical support, so please feel free to post to this forum or send emails to my AOL or to Virtins directly and they'll help you sort it out.

With respect to the "best buy," it is far less expensive to buy the MI "full package" all at once on the GB for a 10% discount vs. buying MI Pro and then all the add-ons via this GB (you'll save hundreds of dollars by doing so). If however, you don't need all the add-ons, than it would of course be less expensive to purchase MI Pro alone or perhaps one MI add-on via this GB instead. If you end up buying MI Pro via this GB and two MI add-ons, it would simply be less expensive and smarter IMO to go for the MI "full package" instead. Not sure if this is clear or not, if not, please post again or send me a message so I can try to assist you.

With respect to the lost of the USB dongle, it is the same for me for other USB dongle protected programs I own / use, e.g., LinearX LEAP v5.x, FilterShop, LspCAD v6.x, etc. (if I loose them, I have to buy the programs again - - well, not the case with LinearX since when Chris Strahm died in Nov 2016 LinearX went out of business, but you get the point). I will ask Virtins about the issue if your USB dongle isn't smashed, crushed but for some reason stops to work (I am fairly certain that so long as it wasn't physically damaged, you could mail the defective one in and get a replacement in exchange, but I will have to verify that).

Wishing you a great day over in Germany!

V/R,

MI Pro
 
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Dear MI Pro,

thanks for your kind answer.

results one obtains should be able to be replicated (provided the settings / test conditions are all the same).
In the trial phase I tried as much as possible to learn or to try out - at the expense of the documentation. Therefore, I am currently unable to provide any unexpected results in detail. Sorry.
Vitrins is VERY good about technical support to their customers, but even if you were using a trail version...
Good news - I did not know that at the time.
Hope, I'll find another pc to execute another trial - will let you know of outcome, if any relevant.

With respect to the lost of the USB dongle, it is the same for me for other USB dongle protected programs I own / use
Would be my first dongle protected program ;)
Getting a spare dongle within decent time rather than buying the entire package again might be an option...

BTW: on my notebook there is no USB port left - is dongle and mouse connected via usb hub feasible?

Best Regards
Ulli
 
Hi everyone,

What happens if one is signing up for the group-buy, but there will be less than the required 42 for the RTX6000 autoranging? I guess then this groupbuy would be dead and everyone free to step out of it (as no offical orders then were sent to Virtins yet).

What happens if 42 do sign up, but then later on less than that will buy the MI Pro via Virtins WebSite (people stepping out of group-buys are not that uncommon)? Would the autoranging feature still be developed? If not, would it be possible to step out of the contract (as then quite some people already would have bought the software officially via Virtins 'special website')? Would all USB sticks be held back until the required 42 needed orders are 'officially' in?

As one of the group-buy participants of the RTX6001 i mostly would be interested in this because of the close interaction of MIPro and the RTX 6001, so the autoranging feature would be, at least for me, a prerequisite in this groupbuy.

Maybe i did overlook it, but i haven't seen this answered in neither this thread nor the attached pdf.

Regards, Clemens
 
Hello everyone, I am from VIRTINS TECHNOLGY. First of all, thank MI_Pro for his kindness to open this GB, although he is not in any way affiliated with VIRTINS TECHNOLOGY. He bought a MI full package license many years ago and has given us some valuable feedbacks.

I would like to address the specific technical issues raised by Posting # 12 by cwtim01.

First of all, thanks cwtim01 for the feedback.

When the software is launched for the very first time after installation, it will pick up the first sound card input endpoint in the list and try to acquire data from it. If that endpoint is not plugged in, an error message will pop up to remind the user of such situation for OS later than XP. In case the first one is not what you want, you can go to [Setting]>[ADC Device]>”Device No.” to select the sound card input endpoint you want. Similarly, you can go to [Setting]>[DAC Device]>”Device No” to select the sound card output endpoint you want.

MI supports a variety of hardware ranging from sound cards which are available in almost all computers to proprietary ADC and DAC hardware such as NI DAQmx cards, VT DSOs and so on. The current version 3.8.1 supports Windows XP, 7, 8, 8.1 and 10. In order not to confuse our end users with different software versions and drivers for various hardware and Windows versions, we maintain only one single MI setup file (MIsetup.exe) for all the supported hardware and Windows versions. The mentioned three drivers are for VT USB DSOs. The drivers were actually from a reputed USB interface IC manufacturer and were digitally signed by Virtins Technology. They will only be called up when VT USB DSOs are attached to the computer. We keep them in the system for the sake of convenience to our DSO users. They only take up very little space. Windows preinstalls many device drivers in the system.

Hope the above clarifies. Any feedback are welcome and appreciated!
Thanks.
 
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I heard from MI Pro that a number of private messages ask for clarity on the benefits / advantages to an RTX6001 owner of having "autoranging" and "autoscaling" capability.

In the following I will try to give my view on this.

Autoranging.
The way I use the RTX6001 the autoranging is not the most important capability. I normally know what levels I want to output and what to expect on the input. And whether e.g. distortion or noise is the most important parameter. But there are cases, where it would be convenient.

Autoscaling.
Autoscaling on the other hand, would be very useful. When documenting measurements, I normally have to use the FFT plot or similar and note the attenuator settings used + convert from dBFS to whatever unit is needed. This is tedious and errors can happen.
It may still be useful to show the settings on the plotted data, since the performance of the RTX6001 does change slightly with the settings. E.g. THD of the ADC does increase when approaching full scale.

Automation.
This is probably one of the biggest advantages of having an integrated system. Being able to do a number of measurements automatically can save a lot of time. It can be particularly useful (necessary!) for a production setup, but it can also be useful for lab use. Being able to repeat measurements and document them easily would be a big benefit. I could certainly also use it for the characterization and final test of the RTX6001 itself :)

I think that the autoranging function is probably easier to implement in a dedicated SW like the MI Pro compared to using e.g. a Matlab based system. Since it is working in real-time, it will work as if there was a DSP in the RTX6001 itself, so detection of levels, overload etc. will be done with almost no delay. I assume that most processing based on Matlab or similar will be based on filling a buffer with data and then do calculations on that buffer. This may make autoranging more difficult to implement and perhaps react slower.

I am not saying that it is impossible to make a system based on e.g. Matlab, but I do think that, for most users, the MI Pro will be a better option than a diy solution.

Jens
 
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Hi Jens,
I agree with you on the three A's you listed. The "Device Test Plan" is by far the most useful feature for me along with the autoranging feature. With the Device Test Plan, you end up with the same reports every time for a given test procedure (which you write). You can have other test plans, each optimized for what you want to do. But everything hinges on the integration between the RTX-6001 and the Virtins MI program. This connection is what changes the RTX-6001 from a very good measuring instrument to a complete system. It is the big difference between the various sound cards plus program into a power system more like the Audio Precision system. This is what anyone designing or repairing audio equipment aspires to.

-Chris
 
Response to posting # 12 by cwtim01 on MI Pro’s GUI

Hello Everyone,

This is a response to the posting # 12 made by cwtim01, please see GB for Virtins MI Pro for RTX6001 autoranging/autoscaling & for soundcard end users - Page 2 - diyAudio

My comments below are only addressing cwtim01’s GUI related comments but I have asked Virtins themselves to post to this MI Pro GB forum on cwtim01’s comments concerning the Virtins drivers installed and the error messages that it picked a sound card that was not plugged in, etc., (and I see that Virtins has already replied to this in posting # 32, please see: GB for Virtins MI Pro for RTX6001 autoranging/autoscaling & for soundcard end users - Page 4 - diyAudio

First off, my thanks go out to cwtim01 for taking the time to try out the program and posting his comments.

As a way introduction, I own and use ARTA, REW and a few others as well, e.g., CLIO v11 FW QC, TEF 25 USB with all the TEF Windows modules, LinearX LMS v4 (Windows, but with an ISA card), DRA Labs MLSSA (DOS and ISA card), SYSid (another DOS and ISA card), SoundEasy v22, etc. I don’t use the older DOS programs too much, but I do have them (MLSSA and SYSid) in a “lunchbox style PC case” that is “semi-luggable” (not battery powered, but semi-portable none the less). The LinearX LMS ISA card fits into a LinearX PAC IV box that hooks up to my older Dell D610 laptop via the serial port. My older Dell D610 laptop has a “real” RS232 serial port and a “real” old fashioned parallel port (the latter are required for some of my older parallel port software protection dongles - - or to hook up to older legacy things like my LinearX PAC IV box, etc.).

What does all the above have to do with respect to MI Pro’s “user interface,” issue that cwtim01 has brought up, etc.? Simply that IMO, I’ve had to learn to deal with many different audio analyzers and audio CAD programs (LinearX LEAP & FilterShop, etc.) DOS or Windows GUIs and all of them have a fairly steep learning curve associated with their use from my perspective.

The above is not to say that some interfaces, be they of the DOS type of menu command or Windows GUI types, tend to be more naturally “intuitive,” than others, but the “intuitiveness” of each is of course up to a given end users’ perspective. Some end users may opine that audio analyzer X has a more intuitive interface than audio analyzer Y, but another end user may feel 180 degrees opposite and who is to say which person is correct?

If software developers change their GUI or other interface one way, there will be some whom are happy, and probably another group who isn’t happy at all. The software developer than finds themselves in a “no win” situation whereby they can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time type of affair. It is akin to a cat chasing its tail type of analogy IMO.

So someone (1 person in this case, i.e., cwtim01) opines that MI, in “his opinion,” uses an old fashioned looking (again, in his “opinion”) looking audio GUI. I do not think that this type of thing should equate to having any firm, be it Virtins or any other audio software firm that makes programs, to stop, revamp their interface based on one person’s feedback / perspective. Doing so will also screw over all the firms end users whom have used the existing GUI interface and understand / know it well for years now, (Virtins started selling MI back in 2005, so there are thousands of end users who are using it and have grown accustomed to its current GUI interface).

I am not stating with the above paragraph that ccwtim01 is asking for Virtins to change their interface, but such things are so subjective in nature, i.e., as the old saying goes “beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

Clearly, changing an established software programs GUI is not something that a company should take lightly. Doing so could greatly anger the established based of existing customers whom have learned to use the GUI interface and we have an uprising / revolt on our hands.

Things like this have to be approached with a lot of thought and should be based on MANY existing customers feedback, not someone whom has never purchased the program and who played around with it (the trail version) for a few minutes or an hour or so and then given his opinionated response (I’m not saying that cwtim01 isn’t entitled to his opinions, he obviously is, but a company should not be changing its GUI interface based on such feedback).

To me, the most important people a company have a commitment to pleasing is its existing paying customer base, and if a majority of them are unhappy with the GUI interface, something needs to change.

I have spoken to my point of contact at Virtins, and at one point the GUI interface that cwtim01 gave his opinions on, will get a “facelift” of sorts, but this isn’t a main priority for Virtins at present, i.e., developing new features like NCD, GedLee Metric, the custom API to remote control the RTX6001 for autoranging / autoscaling, etc. are deemed to be of a higher priority at present. It is simply that the focus for Virtins is on getting real features vs. the facelift for the GUI of MI at present. The GUI facelift will come at a later date.

One thing I have learned through my working my way through all the aforementioned audio gear is that all of them take time to learn to operate. Another thing I have learned is that the more powerful the program and the more features rich it is, the steeper the learning curve there is to get familiar with it.

I think some people expect to be able to use an audio program easily, i.e., hook up a speaker to an amp, hook up the analyzer and a measurement mic and push a button on the audio analyzer and the analyzer spits out “good speaker” vs. “bad speaker.”

I know from reading cwtim01 many diyaudio posting that he is NOT one of these types of individuals, for he’s always shown via his postings a great depth of knowledge on all such audio issues, (thank you cwtim01 :-). However, there admittedly are some whom purchase programs (any of the above) and expect the overly simplistic approach / results I just outlined and these types of individuals are in for a shock and for disappointment when it isn’t as easy to use as a remote control for their TV, etc.

I’ve corresponded with Virtins and they too feel pretty much the same way as I’ve articulated above, i.e., if they make such GUI interface changes they will greatly anger their long established / existing MI customer base and they would be in a no-win situation, (based on one non-paying person’s quick feedback).

MI Pro has been around for a very long time and is VERY feature rich. As such, it will naturally have a steeper learning curve, just as AutoCAD or any other powerful audio analyzer program has, I just don’t think there is any way around this reality regardless of what audio analyzer one chooses to use (if it is powerful and is feature laden).

The nice thing is that with add-ons like MI’s “Device Test Plan,” more complex tests becomes far easier due to macros, etc. that allow a series of steps to be performed, (akin to the old Liberty Audio Instruments’ LAUD “Easy Scripts,” type of affair [but on steroids IMO]), see: LAUD Scripts -- user programmable, highly automated measurements (and read the paragraph entitled: “The Idea Behind Scripts”)

V/R,

MI Pro
 
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How the MI USB dongle issue works (warranty, replacement, etc.)

There have been a few postings on this matter so this posting is provided in order to help clear up any confusion on this particular issue.

The MI USB dongle hardware key has a one year warranty. During the warranty period, a replacement USB hardware key will be shipped to the buyer's address free of charge upon receiving and verifying the returned faulty USB hardware key. The buyer only needs to pay one-way postage to Singapore. If the warranty period expires, the buyer needs to pay additional US$39.95 for the cost of USB hardware key and shipping.

If the USB hardware key is lost, a purchase of a replacement USB hardware dongle equal to the price of the software license plus the cost of the USB hardware key will be required. There is no purchasing option to buy a 2nd (backup) USB dongle key as a “spare” for ~$40 USD in case the 1st USB hardware key is lost, etc.

For those of you whom may be new to the above USB dongle policy, this is not something that is unique to Virtins. Many audio companies do this to protect themselves / their intellectual property. I have attached just a small sample of my various parallel and USB audio hardware keys from different firms to this posting to illustrate this point.

If you open the attached JPEG picture, you’ll see:

- A Pinguin parallel port dongle Pinguin Ing. Buro, Hamburg

- Steinberg WaveLab USB dongle WaveLab — A Quantum Leap in Audio Quality | Steinberg

- Steinberg Nuendo USB dongle Start | Steinberg

- Adjust+ Pro USB dongle Adjust+ Part I and Adjust+ Part II

- LspCAD USB dongle https://bit.ly/2JiuWam

- Pro Tools USB dongle https://bit.ly/2naoaZy

- SoundEasy as well as Ultimate Equalizer USB dongles (2 of them) https://bit.ly/2sMId3Z

- LinearX LEAP & FilterShop dongles (this firm went out of business after its sole owner, Chris Strahm, died in Nov 2016…alas, they shut down the website too).

I have more such audio USB and parallel port protection dongles for my other audio programs, so I’m VERY familiar with how such USB dongle protection schemes work from many years of experience.

Why do I bring up the above / have I attached the picture showing these various hardware dongles / URL links, etc.? I’m trying to illustrate that it is a de facto industry standard practice to offer the same type of warranty / policy that Virtins does with their USB dongles. None of these, or any of my other audio hardware protection dongle firms offer the option of buying a “2nd USB dongle for the cost of the dongle” in the event the 1st dongle is lost, etc. All of them require the end user to pay a full license fee to get the dongle replaced if the original dongle is lost. I strongly encourage end users to contact the above firms to verify this fact; it is simply the way it is.

By the way, I’m very careful with these hardware protection dongles, for I fully understand that if I lose them, I’m out a lot of $$$. I’m happy to say that I’ve never lost one of my dongles (I keep them in a safe place and put them back when I’m done using that particular program).

I’m also happy to say that after more than 20+ years of using such audio protection dongles (yes, I’m dating myself a bit) I have never had one of them “go bad on me.”

Hopefully this clarifies both how the MI Pro USB protection dongle works as well as the rationale behind it.

V/R,

MI Pro
 

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Hi MI Pro,
Well, for $40 I hope it's at least pretty and well marked. What's interesting is that when you don't use a dongle, you get a "key" as a series of alpha-numeric characters to enter. This can be saved in a safe place and retrieving said license is usually no charge as they simply look your options up and give you the same information. Typically you are allowed to use the software on any computer as long as you are only running one instance at a time. Losing a software key shouldn't cost you more than the amount for the key in my view. They already got paid for the program / option and have record of such. Having to pay full pop ($40) for another key with the same information on it is reasonable. Having to re-purchase the software and options isn't fair, nor reasonable as they can easily prove what you have and haven't paid for.

Just how I feel on the subject, it won't change how they deal with it.

-Chris
 
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