NZ2520SDA Group buy (for 45.1584 MHz and 49.152 MHz):
1. Lorien - 10 pairs
2. M_Baou - 1 pair.
3. sontero - 1 pair.
@ sontero: I got all your messages thus I've updated the GB list, don't worry!
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As for the markings on the NDK oscillators, there is nothing clear from NDK so far! I got a document stating all the marking on the parts and their meaning and, I looked into it just to make a difference between SD and SDA parts.
There's none!
I'll keep pushing though, but so far anyone can sell "SD" parts as "SDA" alternatives since you have no chance in differentiate the two!
At least for the time being! Given this, you have to be careful what you're buying and in whom you'll put your trust in as I'm sure there will be many who'll take advantage of this, especially sellers from Asia.
Kind regards,
L
1. Lorien - 10 pairs
2. M_Baou - 1 pair.
3. sontero - 1 pair.
@ sontero: I got all your messages thus I've updated the GB list, don't worry!
------------
As for the markings on the NDK oscillators, there is nothing clear from NDK so far! I got a document stating all the marking on the parts and their meaning and, I looked into it just to make a difference between SD and SDA parts.
There's none!
I'll keep pushing though, but so far anyone can sell "SD" parts as "SDA" alternatives since you have no chance in differentiate the two!At least for the time being! Given this, you have to be careful what you're buying and in whom you'll put your trust in as I'm sure there will be many who'll take advantage of this, especially sellers from Asia.
Kind regards,
L
A week ago i recieved a new WaveIo with the NDK A clocks.
I swapped it with my current WaveIo with the older NDK clocks.
My wife got annoyed becouse now she can hear little squeeks (from fingerplacement on the strings of the violin).
I am very happy with the new clocks.
Did not expect the difference as i use a Soekris dam dac. The dac fifo reclocks the whole signal.
In my perception the whole sound is better. Better soundstage, more tiny details. Bass is more tight. Can be percieved as less bass.
I swapped it with my current WaveIo with the older NDK clocks.
My wife got annoyed becouse now she can hear little squeeks (from fingerplacement on the strings of the violin).
I am very happy with the new clocks.
Did not expect the difference as i use a Soekris dam dac. The dac fifo reclocks the whole signal.
In my perception the whole sound is better. Better soundstage, more tiny details. Bass is more tight. Can be percieved as less bass.
Found the data page for the older SD model:
NZ2520SD(OA / AV)/Crystal Clock Oscillators/NDK
versus the new SDA model:
NZ2520SDA(OA / AV)/Crystal Clock Oscillators/NDK
Looks like a substantial lowering of 1kHz phase noise by about 12dB (wish they specified 10Hz and 100Hz noise too, but realize those are much harder to measure).
NZ2520SD(OA / AV)/Crystal Clock Oscillators/NDK
versus the new SDA model:
NZ2520SDA(OA / AV)/Crystal Clock Oscillators/NDK
Looks like a substantial lowering of 1kHz phase noise by about 12dB (wish they specified 10Hz and 100Hz noise too, but realize those are much harder to measure).
Attachments
NZ2520SDA Group buy (for 45.1584 MHz and 49.152 MHz):
1. Lorien - 10 pairs
2. M_Baou - 1 pair.
3. sontero - 1 pair.
For those interested in 4x.xxx MHz oscillators, I was announced that I'll have the parts at the beginning of December so I'll contact you over PMs to as for the Paypal addresses so I can issue the invoices!
If anyone else wish to have a pair or more then put your DIYAudio nick name on the list or contact me directly!
Kind regards,
L
1. Lorien - 10 pairs
2. M_Baou - 1 pair.
3. sontero - 1 pair.
For those interested in 4x.xxx MHz oscillators, I was announced that I'll have the parts at the beginning of December so I'll contact you over PMs to as for the Paypal addresses so I can issue the invoices!
If anyone else wish to have a pair or more then put your DIYAudio nick name on the list or contact me directly!
Kind regards,
L
For those of you who finds difficult to solder small oscillators....what i did with the previous version was to make it stand upright and solder only 2 pads ''directly''(not surface to surface though) to the board and after that solder two small ''legs''(wire or resistor strand) at an angle joining each oscillator terminal to the board. it still is compact given the size and easy to desolder if needed.
this would have save my quite some time and a dead NDK....
this would have save my quite some time and a dead NDK....
Hi Lucian,
I have received the Wave I/O board today. The difference in sound is simply stunning. Last time I had tears in my eyes caused by an exceptional sound I was listing to, was a long, long time ago when I heard Dynaudio speakers for the first time (we are taking more than a few decades ago!) .... and again today after I swapped the SD for the SDA Wave I/O card... Thank you so much. I will post my impressions on DIYAudio forums as well... once I manage to process the stunning improvement in sound quality.
I will send the second board to you this week and will let you know once sent.
Thank you!!!
Regards,
Nick
I have received the Wave I/O board today. The difference in sound is simply stunning. Last time I had tears in my eyes caused by an exceptional sound I was listing to, was a long, long time ago when I heard Dynaudio speakers for the first time (we are taking more than a few decades ago!) .... and again today after I swapped the SD for the SDA Wave I/O card... Thank you so much. I will post my impressions on DIYAudio forums as well... once I manage to process the stunning improvement in sound quality.
I will send the second board to you this week and will let you know once sent.
Thank you!!!
Regards,
Nick
hi Extreme_Boky,
compared to...?
i,m debating wether to get this or cchd-575 for about the same price.....
ok...compared to the older board.
i see it measures better compared to cchd-575, but i read a few times around here that some «non A» versions may not be up to the specs.
Also, when i repalced my stock MEC oscillator on an m2tech i2s converter, with the «non A» older version, i clearly gained better bass ans spacing but lost details in the highs.
That, combined with Nounouchet subjective comparison with CCHD-957 (earlier in this thread) that does not shows a clear winner, combined again with people not finding much difference between CCHD-575 and 957, makes me a bit skeptical about the value of the datasheet specs.
Anyway...i guess i will just order one and see for myself. They don't break the bank really...just a little annoying to solder.
reagrds,
-pierre
CCHD-575 has much worse phase noise compared to NDK SD oscillator. NOTE: this is an ordinary SD type I'm talking about here.
NDK specifies the phase noise performance starting at 1Hz.
Crystek specifies the phase noise performance starting at 10Hz. Specifying the performance at 1Hz would be too embarrassing...
10Hz NDK SD: -112.5dBc/Hz
10Hz Crystek CCHD-575: -90.1dBc/Hz
Note, once again: this is "ordinary" SD performance specs listed above – NOT an SDA.
SDA should have the phase noise improvement of approximately -10dBc/Hz across the whole range, over an SD.
NDK specifies the phase noise performance starting at 1Hz.
Crystek specifies the phase noise performance starting at 10Hz. Specifying the performance at 1Hz would be too embarrassing...
10Hz NDK SD: -112.5dBc/Hz
10Hz Crystek CCHD-575: -90.1dBc/Hz
Note, once again: this is "ordinary" SD performance specs listed above – NOT an SDA.
SDA should have the phase noise improvement of approximately -10dBc/Hz across the whole range, over an SD.
I have two Wave I/O boards with me at the moment, for an easy A/B comparison. One has the original SD's; the other SDA's that were replaced by Lucian few weeks back.
The +5 V supply for these boards comes from a very low noise LT3045 voltage regulator. In addition, the IL715 isolator chip has its own LT3045 regulator. This power supply topology that I implemented may or may not emphasise the differences between SD and SDA boards…
SDA board has much better instrument's definition and faithfulness to how they should sound. The micro-detail retrieval is also much better. The bass frequencies definition and reach is miles ahead compared to SD board. The bass is also much deeper; I'd say that subjectively, the bass gained a lot in energy and in particular in definition.
Human voices are also much more natural. I played both boards to my friends (a tough and critical bunch of high enders and professional musicians) and my kids, and they were all stunned at the improvement SDA boards provides.
There is an improved sense of darker background / better dynamic range. This is easily noticeable, compared to SD board. The music has better flow and better engagement with an SDA board.
The down side, as you and many have reported, is the subjective perception of a loss of high frequency spectrum. This is quite obvious, especially when I listen to my filterless NOS DAC at 44.1 sample rate. However, this can be compensated either in DSP Parametric Equalizer plugin (JRiver), or by oversampling which I dislike a lot and don’t use.
I also did a critical comparison with a professional, native DSD DAC that also plays oversampled PCM extremely nicely. The SDA improvement is obvious in micro-detail retrieval, faithfulness of voices and instruments, engagement and sheer bass definition. HOWEVER, subjectively, the SDA board seems to have less of the high frequencies compared to the SD board. But, this is subjective observation. I checked with the oscilloscope and the 20kHz sinewave signal being played… there is no difference in amplitude amount between SDA and SD board. It’s just that the bass is so much better with SDA it’s overwhelming.
It also depends on the material being played. If the music has a well recorded high frequency spectrum, it will sound really nice through the SDA board.
The +5 V supply for these boards comes from a very low noise LT3045 voltage regulator. In addition, the IL715 isolator chip has its own LT3045 regulator. This power supply topology that I implemented may or may not emphasise the differences between SD and SDA boards…
SDA board has much better instrument's definition and faithfulness to how they should sound. The micro-detail retrieval is also much better. The bass frequencies definition and reach is miles ahead compared to SD board. The bass is also much deeper; I'd say that subjectively, the bass gained a lot in energy and in particular in definition.
Human voices are also much more natural. I played both boards to my friends (a tough and critical bunch of high enders and professional musicians) and my kids, and they were all stunned at the improvement SDA boards provides.
There is an improved sense of darker background / better dynamic range. This is easily noticeable, compared to SD board. The music has better flow and better engagement with an SDA board.
The down side, as you and many have reported, is the subjective perception of a loss of high frequency spectrum. This is quite obvious, especially when I listen to my filterless NOS DAC at 44.1 sample rate. However, this can be compensated either in DSP Parametric Equalizer plugin (JRiver), or by oversampling which I dislike a lot and don’t use.
I also did a critical comparison with a professional, native DSD DAC that also plays oversampled PCM extremely nicely. The SDA improvement is obvious in micro-detail retrieval, faithfulness of voices and instruments, engagement and sheer bass definition. HOWEVER, subjectively, the SDA board seems to have less of the high frequencies compared to the SD board. But, this is subjective observation. I checked with the oscilloscope and the 20kHz sinewave signal being played… there is no difference in amplitude amount between SDA and SD board. It’s just that the bass is so much better with SDA it’s overwhelming.
It also depends on the material being played. If the music has a well recorded high frequency spectrum, it will sound really nice through the SDA board.
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i'm really talking about loss of detail, not amplitude, in the highs, which is what i miss a little bit with the SD compared to the «cheap» MEC clock. But no doubt the SD has stunning low end and instruments don't stumble one onto each other...so much that it litteraly sounded bad before the drivers had to soften further.
i think i'll go ahead and upgrade...at least i know what sound characteristics to expect. And if it is up to the specs, well it sure will sound stunning.
if you want to hack your board, it may be really rewarding. clocks really like low output Z regs rather than low noise, in my experience. Even well biased lm317 gave me really good sound. Right now adm7151 is in place ang gives me a really neutral sound, though i yet have to try lt3045 and bias it like hell...
I also encourage you to bypass the isolator (if you can do it safely). i think i actually used the same one model once (between m2tech board and pcm1794) but removed it for a more natural sound, though not as polite and delicate.
i think i'll go ahead and upgrade...at least i know what sound characteristics to expect. And if it is up to the specs, well it sure will sound stunning.
if you want to hack your board, it may be really rewarding. clocks really like low output Z regs rather than low noise, in my experience. Even well biased lm317 gave me really good sound. Right now adm7151 is in place ang gives me a really neutral sound, though i yet have to try lt3045 and bias it like hell...
I also encourage you to bypass the isolator (if you can do it safely). i think i actually used the same one model once (between m2tech board and pcm1794) but removed it for a more natural sound, though not as polite and delicate.
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If I oversample to 192kHz, there is absolutely no loss of detail of any kind, compared to other PCM DAC's processing the same oversampled signal. In fact, I hear beautiful top-end extension and a lot of space above the speakers. This is with SDA card. With SD card, that top-end detail retrieval and overall presentation is unnatural (unpleasant) and somewhat compressed.
I think I failed to mention the biggest improvement in sound that SDA brings. It is not in a particular frequency extension, but in an overall natural sound presentation that is also very deep right in front of me. The low range is beautifully integrated, well defined and deep. Other DAC's have a nice extension, but failed more or less, to present the overall sound in a way that SDA and filterless DAC can.
With opera singers, the voice has texture and detail that makes it so believable. The (concert) hall ambience is also right there for you to "see". I don't know how to explain it better.
SDA oscillators bring digital sound reproduction improvement that can not be easily achieved by other means of moding.
I think I failed to mention the biggest improvement in sound that SDA brings. It is not in a particular frequency extension, but in an overall natural sound presentation that is also very deep right in front of me. The low range is beautifully integrated, well defined and deep. Other DAC's have a nice extension, but failed more or less, to present the overall sound in a way that SDA and filterless DAC can.
With opera singers, the voice has texture and detail that makes it so believable. The (concert) hall ambience is also right there for you to "see". I don't know how to explain it better.
SDA oscillators bring digital sound reproduction improvement that can not be easily achieved by other means of moding.
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As good as a piece of equipment can be, it also has a character of it's own, which people will taste and make an opinion of it. The best measuring sound system can sound awful to some or reveal weaknesses which might have been hidden otherwise.
That said, i have ordrdered the SDA version and will be able to test it subjectively. I expect the same kind of sound than the previous version, but obviously upgraded. Still i'd be interested in a comparison with crystek offering or even Pulsar or laptech,etc...
That said, i have ordrdered the SDA version and will be able to test it subjectively. I expect the same kind of sound than the previous version, but obviously upgraded. Still i'd be interested in a comparison with crystek offering or even Pulsar or laptech,etc...
not sure what it's worth, but here is some graph showing different measurements than the specs for SD version
The New Hypex Fusion Plate amps
measures about 10dB lower than on datasheet at 1khz.
The New Hypex Fusion Plate amps
measures about 10dB lower than on datasheet at 1khz.
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