no way... Physics is not supporting this
assumed 300mA current for discharge by the way
The 70F caps will be long gone empty after hours.
your idea from 17 to 16,2 will take 200 seconds for 70F
meaning for 4 hours you need a 5500F cap (~80 in parallel of the Eaton one)
To "quickly" charge this mega bank back from 16.2 to 17 (1 minute?) you would need a power supply delivering ~70A(forget the cabling for a moment)
here are the facts:
...
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Hello Doede,
I know that a supercap is a total different thing than a battery but i didnt know the difference was THIS big.
I read that somewhere in Asia they had a kind of commuting system running on a supercap and at EVERY stop there must be a recharge because it would not reach the next stop without that.
A battery is a chemical process that will always generate some noise and that is why adding a supercap works so well. Like Andrea said the right lifepo4 can run the clocks for 10 hours. As far as ik know now every lifepo4 cell needs its own little UcHybrid boards. So you will need 5 boards and 10 caps. ONLY after asking Ian someone could try just adding a big 61,7 F cap.
Because Andrea '' clockenspiel '' focus so much on noise ii think using a big supercap is mandatory.. Supersurfer has done some test with going over the top on supercaps. Maybe he should try the 116 Euro 61,7F supercap.
Thanks to Doede for explaining.
Greetings, eduard
I know that a supercap is a total different thing than a battery but i didnt know the difference was THIS big.
I read that somewhere in Asia they had a kind of commuting system running on a supercap and at EVERY stop there must be a recharge because it would not reach the next stop without that.
A battery is a chemical process that will always generate some noise and that is why adding a supercap works so well. Like Andrea said the right lifepo4 can run the clocks for 10 hours. As far as ik know now every lifepo4 cell needs its own little UcHybrid boards. So you will need 5 boards and 10 caps. ONLY after asking Ian someone could try just adding a big 61,7 F cap.
Because Andrea '' clockenspiel '' focus so much on noise ii think using a big supercap is mandatory.. Supersurfer has done some test with going over the top on supercaps. Maybe he should try the 116 Euro 61,7F supercap.
Thanks to Doede for explaining.
Greetings, eduard
I tried the 3000F caps. Doing well but not very practical with the very lage size. Minor improvement in comparison to the 325F versions. Both are used with UcConditioner pcb so are constantly powered.
I think there is more to benefit with focus on other details. Battery supply for clocks is very good, no need to go over the top.
I think there is more to benefit with focus on other details. Battery supply for clocks is very good, no need to go over the top.
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In Ian’s implementation the ultra cap shuts down if you stop feeding it a regulated voltage in. It lowers the impedance as there is so much reserve power stored up available in parallel to the input supply but it isn’t meant to be a stand alone power source. The voltage discharge curve is not ideal as it starts and then continues to fall off more or less linearly It can supply enormous almost instantaneous current so it is great to hold up a supply but unlike a battery which maintains a much higher voltage throughout most of its charge cycle.
Hello,
I wanna use them as described by Doede in his blog. So " precharging " with a CC supply , when the supercap is full, switch off the CC supply and let an " audiophile " supply take care of the 300mA needed by the circuit.
The supply will be a choke input followed by a nice low voltage drop regulator which will be positioned close to the 61,7 F cap terminals.
It looks like taking extra care of the screening capability of the 6 enclosures could give improvements. Already found some nice sturdy aluminium boxes that i could improve by adding an extra panel from scrap material 3 or 4 mm thickness. Which also keeps sounds/ vibrations outside.
Greetings,Eduard
I wanna use them as described by Doede in his blog. So " precharging " with a CC supply , when the supercap is full, switch off the CC supply and let an " audiophile " supply take care of the 300mA needed by the circuit.
The supply will be a choke input followed by a nice low voltage drop regulator which will be positioned close to the 61,7 F cap terminals.
It looks like taking extra care of the screening capability of the 6 enclosures could give improvements. Already found some nice sturdy aluminium boxes that i could improve by adding an extra panel from scrap material 3 or 4 mm thickness. Which also keeps sounds/ vibrations outside.
Greetings,Eduard
Or as a brief UPS
My company used them as a UPS in smart meter comms solutions. When the power goes out the smart meter on your house has 5 mins to send out a "last gasp" message to declare I've lost power and i'm crashing! Helps enormously to determine where to send the crew to fix the power outage, but that's a different use case.
My company used them as a UPS in smart meter comms solutions. When the power goes out the smart meter on your house has 5 mins to send out a "last gasp" message to declare I've lost power and i'm crashing! Helps enormously to determine where to send the crew to fix the power outage, but that's a different use case.
Hello,
I bought two 5 volt ucboards on swapmeet to make a 10 volt supply using a lm350 for a future Etherregen BUT was told it will only work with two separate 5 volt supplies being put in series.
If you wanna create a 16,5 volt supply with the lifepo4 board the only way to add ultracaps is add an UcHybrid board across each 3,3 volt cel
So very probably adding one 16,7 F 18 volt across the 16,5 lifepo4 terminal will go terribly wrong..
Maybe it can be done with the board from Andrea.
Greetings,Eduard
I bought two 5 volt ucboards on swapmeet to make a 10 volt supply using a lm350 for a future Etherregen BUT was told it will only work with two separate 5 volt supplies being put in series.
If you wanna create a 16,5 volt supply with the lifepo4 board the only way to add ultracaps is add an UcHybrid board across each 3,3 volt cel
So very probably adding one 16,7 F 18 volt across the 16,5 lifepo4 terminal will go terribly wrong..
Maybe it can be done with the board from Andrea.
Greetings,Eduard
FWIW, probably time for a safety reminder. Face shield on and fire extinguisher handy?
We did high energy tests of how stuff like a FIFO or WTMC fails when it gets hit with a few thousand amps. Think plasma burst with vaporized copper. The PCB is laid bare of traces and parts. Insulated wire is left as a hollow tube devoid of copper. Sounds like a shot gun and parts fly. It is fascinating to watch on super high speed camera. I would not want to be in the room though.
We did high energy tests of how stuff like a FIFO or WTMC fails when it gets hit with a few thousand amps. Think plasma burst with vaporized copper. The PCB is laid bare of traces and parts. Insulated wire is left as a hollow tube devoid of copper. Sounds like a shot gun and parts fly. It is fascinating to watch on super high speed camera. I would not want to be in the room though.
Hello,
Some people drive a Tesla and other people use a supercap in their power supply.
If you have a tube amp running on a few hundred volts you dont need a beer can seize cap to vaporize a wide copper trace. I have experienced it once decades ago. The copper particles got kind of cladded to the metal of the chassis.
Of course you should try to build things like they should.
BUT if you see most creations here using a mix of methods to interconnect and mount things onto a piece of wood isnt to safe either. Usually there will be a mix of cables like a birds nest and only the one who build will have an idea which is which the day it is finished but one week later it will be as confusing as it is for us.
Of course two wrongs doesnt make one right!
Greetings, eduard
Some people drive a Tesla and other people use a supercap in their power supply.
If you have a tube amp running on a few hundred volts you dont need a beer can seize cap to vaporize a wide copper trace. I have experienced it once decades ago. The copper particles got kind of cladded to the metal of the chassis.
Of course you should try to build things like they should.
BUT if you see most creations here using a mix of methods to interconnect and mount things onto a piece of wood isnt to safe either. Usually there will be a mix of cables like a birds nest and only the one who build will have an idea which is which the day it is finished but one week later it will be as confusing as it is for us.
Of course two wrongs doesnt make one right!
Greetings, eduard
Hello,
ALL my power supplies use a choke input with the right bleeder resistor so after switching it off the caps will be empty pretty soon. Some will take a few seconds other maybe one minute. Before moving the chassis onto my diy table there will be no charge and i will always check before opening the circuit.
Of course with lifepo4 and supercaps things are different and before receiving my parcel from Ian i will study the manual. After switching of the power supply going to the 61,7 F supercap i will '' bleed '' the cap with a big power resistor that will draw a little more than the clock circuitry and i will be down to zero volt quickly.
So people should read the manual and not just think there cant be many ''volts left '' BUT a few volts at 61,7 F or 1,5 volt in a 3,3 volt UcHybrid board is enough to do at lot of damage. MOST people know but if you see some duct tape supercap creations there are a lot of people willing to take a risk.
With a tiny cap still having a little juice everything could survive if by accident you create a short circuit while pimping your creation. You could see a little spark and after the spark the cap will be empty.
On the internet you see a lot of instruction videos how to discharge a cap with a screwdriver. So a good idea to read the original manual and check if the cap is really empty. Normal caps sometimes go up in value after being completely discharged. Dont know if this also with a supercap if so better keep the discharge resistor connector or even better disconnect it from the clock boards.
Greetings, Eduard
ALL my power supplies use a choke input with the right bleeder resistor so after switching it off the caps will be empty pretty soon. Some will take a few seconds other maybe one minute. Before moving the chassis onto my diy table there will be no charge and i will always check before opening the circuit.
Of course with lifepo4 and supercaps things are different and before receiving my parcel from Ian i will study the manual. After switching of the power supply going to the 61,7 F supercap i will '' bleed '' the cap with a big power resistor that will draw a little more than the clock circuitry and i will be down to zero volt quickly.
So people should read the manual and not just think there cant be many ''volts left '' BUT a few volts at 61,7 F or 1,5 volt in a 3,3 volt UcHybrid board is enough to do at lot of damage. MOST people know but if you see some duct tape supercap creations there are a lot of people willing to take a risk.
With a tiny cap still having a little juice everything could survive if by accident you create a short circuit while pimping your creation. You could see a little spark and after the spark the cap will be empty.
On the internet you see a lot of instruction videos how to discharge a cap with a screwdriver. So a good idea to read the original manual and check if the cap is really empty. Normal caps sometimes go up in value after being completely discharged. Dont know if this also with a supercap if so better keep the discharge resistor connector or even better disconnect it from the clock boards.
Greetings, Eduard
Ok eduard, now you are scaring me a little bit.
The point is for those that are considering large supercaps, any kind of accidental short to a circuit attached to a charged supercap will fail catastrophically.
Copper melts and splatters in every direction and it is dangerous. You might successfully hook it up, charge it and then accidentally drop something that shorts the circuit and it will explode with molten copper in your eyes. Again, you likely know this but your posts don't reflect it and I post this for others that might think these things are just another cap. You short out an ordinary cap and you get a little spark and its bad for the cap. You short out a 300F cap with a screw driver and you arc weld the screw driver to whatever you touched.
The point is for those that are considering large supercaps, any kind of accidental short to a circuit attached to a charged supercap will fail catastrophically.
Copper melts and splatters in every direction and it is dangerous. You might successfully hook it up, charge it and then accidentally drop something that shorts the circuit and it will explode with molten copper in your eyes. Again, you likely know this but your posts don't reflect it and I post this for others that might think these things are just another cap. You short out an ordinary cap and you get a little spark and its bad for the cap. You short out a 300F cap with a screw driver and you arc weld the screw driver to whatever you touched.
Hello,
Before you buy a Tesla you should know what to once you see smoke where there should not be any.
When you buy a supercap there are things you should know.
When you have some little creatures running around you should never leave them alone with any dog.
Never dive into a pool if you dont know how deep it is.
I write about checking the voltage before actually opening it.
I have done spot welding before and back then with an old fashioned watch the thing would go crazy.
So people should get informed before using a new technique, just like you will use a router for the first time or a Chinese blow torch.
People should hire a truck when they need to transport some panels. I am sure the neighbours from my hotel in Cameroon knew this wasnt very safe.
Greetings,Eduard
Before you buy a Tesla you should know what to once you see smoke where there should not be any.
When you buy a supercap there are things you should know.
When you have some little creatures running around you should never leave them alone with any dog.
Never dive into a pool if you dont know how deep it is.
I write about checking the voltage before actually opening it.
I have done spot welding before and back then with an old fashioned watch the thing would go crazy.
So people should get informed before using a new technique, just like you will use a router for the first time or a Chinese blow torch.
People should hire a truck when they need to transport some panels. I am sure the neighbours from my hotel in Cameroon knew this wasnt very safe.
Greetings,Eduard
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A properly designed ultra cap disconnects itself from the circuit if it looses input power. As storage is so great it is both wasteful and stressing to the ultra cap to go through multiple deep discharge cycles. By disconnecting it remains mostly charged for a long time and comes back on line quickly with minimal impact to the power supply and powered circuitry. The first charge is best applied with only the cap connected to the power supply so it can take utilize the full power of the supply to fill up. This can take several minutes and can stress out any other connected circuitry at the time of initial charging. I have observed a few hundred milliamp regulator crashing as its current was exceeded by an ultra cap charging up. It would power cycle between reaching regulation which would then turn on the ultra cap charging which would exceed the regulated supply crashing it which in turn shut down the ultra cap charging, rinse and repeat for over five minutes until the cap was finally charged and able to run in parallel with the regulated supply. As mentioned these are not batteries and very different handling and precautions are required.
Hello,
Doede, the DDDAC man, already figured out how to do things according to the book and he will fine tune the several components so it will work properly for years to come.
The clock circuitry is the only item that will be fed by the 61,7F cap.
In the DDDAC chassis itself there will be a lifepo4 board which will give 3 separate 3,3 voltages each with its own UcHybrid board.
The Raspberry pi will have a uccondtioner with two 325F in series that will be fed by the 5v 2A on the lifepo4 board.
Greetings, Eduard.
If you will just take 3 X3,3 volts the other 3,3 volt cells will or can be put in parallel with those 3? The UcHybrid boards will be close to the Fifopi board.
Greetings, eduard
Doede, the DDDAC man, already figured out how to do things according to the book and he will fine tune the several components so it will work properly for years to come.
The clock circuitry is the only item that will be fed by the 61,7F cap.
In the DDDAC chassis itself there will be a lifepo4 board which will give 3 separate 3,3 voltages each with its own UcHybrid board.
The Raspberry pi will have a uccondtioner with two 325F in series that will be fed by the 5v 2A on the lifepo4 board.
Greetings, Eduard.
If you will just take 3 X3,3 volts the other 3,3 volt cells will or can be put in parallel with those 3? The UcHybrid boards will be close to the Fifopi board.
Greetings, eduard
Ah, you noticed
Yes, this was only for a test. Is was even powered with an Allo Shanti that also has ultracaps in the output stage
Hello Supersurfer,
I recently bought 2 UcConditioners each 5 volts to put them in series to create a nice supply for a Etherregen.
But the almighty Ian told if this can only be done if each board will have its own completely isolated regulator.
MAYBE the Allo Shanti has a circuit that will allow doing this but better assume that under normal circumstances it cannot be done. OR maybe it will work for a while.
By the way did you replace any of the two regulators on the DDDAC mainboard by a supply coming from the a lifepo4 board?
Greetings, eduard
I recently bought 2 UcConditioners each 5 volts to put them in series to create a nice supply for a Etherregen.
But the almighty Ian told if this can only be done if each board will have its own completely isolated regulator.
MAYBE the Allo Shanti has a circuit that will allow doing this but better assume that under normal circumstances it cannot be done. OR maybe it will work for a while.
By the way did you replace any of the two regulators on the DDDAC mainboard by a supply coming from the a lifepo4 board?
Greetings, eduard