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DIY Waveguide loudspeaker kit

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I am finalizing the design of a 10" two way system ala the ESP10 at www.ai-audio.com. This speaker has very high output and a very clean response and sound quality. I am going to sell it as a kit.

Questions:

Would people prefer to buy as few parts as possible or a completely packaged all-in-one kit?

The crossover design is specific to the drivers, which are B&C, and so using other drivers is risky and likely to be a disaster. But I can get B&C drivers at a good price and can send them directly to the builder. Would people want to buy their own drivers even though I can sell them cheaper than they can buy them? Remember the crossover only works exactly correct for the one specific set of drivers. It's not feasible for me to do more than one crossover design because they take so long to do.

I can get the crossover parts more reasonable than most people can buy them for. Would people still prefer to buy their own parts?

If a full kit were a much better deal than buying the individual parts would people prefer the full kit? Piecing out the sale means I have to charge a lot more for the individual parts.

A set of drawings would be possible, but the waveguide and foam plug are very difficult for the DIT to build. I could just sell the baffle, waveguide and plug and the builder does everything else, but this too requires a lot of competance in doing a good crossover etc. I don't just use a single axial response, my crossovers are optimized for the full polars - which is not trivial.

I'm just trying to get a feel for what people are most interested in.

Thanks for any input you can give.
 
Dr. Geddes,

Most DIYers prefer to construct their own speaker enclosures.

So IMHO, your best chance of success with this new system would be to package all components, including drivers, crossover parts, waveguide, phase plug, input terminals, recommended damping material, etc, and supply a full set of enclosure assembly instructions.

Good luck with your venture.

Larry
 
Howdy Earl!

Does it go to 110dB continuous? That's dangerous.....

Just kidding!

I'd be inclined to want just the waveguide, baffle, plug, and schematic/plans. You could offer 2 versions, the proprietary stuff only version (above) and a full on 'kit'. I also strongly suggest issuing a CD along with the kit, including some test/setup signals and extensive build documentation.

Some options would be:

Offer pre-assembled XOs and/or unpopulated boards
Offer flat-pack cabinets

If you'd like, I'd be happy to betatest the kit for you.

I saw you at THE show a few years back, but didn't get to hear the speakers, you were engaged in conversation and I hadn't seen the waveguide tech previously, so didn't have the interest I do now.
 
Thanks

Great suggestions.

Yes they will easily do 110 dB, without breaking a sweat!:)

Now, there is a limitation that you MUST understand. The waveguides will not be wood and have to be bonded to wood - MDF in this case. So the MINIMUM that I can supply is the full baffle with the waveguide bonded to it. (You could easily cut off the bottom for the waveguide only.) Options to this most basic part are simply not cost effective, especially since this will be the single most expensive part.

I thought of four maybe five levels.

1) Baffle only (non-routered edges) about 33% of total cost

2) Baffle and crossover design and parts about 50% of total cost

3) Baffle, drivers, crossover design and parts, about 80% of total cost

4) Baffle, and drivers, crossover design, about 70% cost

5) Everything (Routered baffle) 100%

(Baffles come with foam plug and driver mounting plate.) The baffle is 1.25 " CLD MDF. Edeg round is 1".

It seems to me that 2 and 3 are not worth doing because you may as well at least get the drivers too. 1), 4) and 5) make sense to me.

A flat pack for the cabinets is what I had in mind - I would never assemble them - that makes no sense. If you consider that $600 was my target price you can see what the options would be.
 
Ex-Moderator
Joined 2002
Earl, I think you're making life difficult for yourself with all the options. Stockholding and order processing could get very complex. I'd go for two options 'till you get yourself up and running, baffle with waveguide and foam, and complete kit, your options 1 and 3. You can always add more choices, depending on how sales go, later down the line. ;)
 
pinkmouse said:
Earl, I think you're making life difficult for yourself with all the options. Stockholding and order processing could get very complex. I'd go for two options 'till you get yourself up and running, baffle with waveguide and foam, and complete kit, your options 1 and 3. You can always add more choices, depending on how sales go, later down the line. ;)


Thats not really true, because the drivers are shipped out directly from the warehouse, I don't have to handle them. And the crossover parts will be too. So actually the top four options are not really a problem for me. The baffles and foam plugs I have to make so thats where the big task is and why the cost is the highest. If I elliminated anything I'd like to elliminate the whole kit (thats a real pain!), but I wonder if this wouldn't seriously limit appeal.

Comments?
 
Re: Sub ?

Bratislav said:
Earl,

would you consider including the plans for the crossover (active or passive) to integrate subwoofer(s) ? With 100Hz -3dB it is more of a requirement than an option.

Bratislav

The thing is that integrating the subs with the mains is room dependent, so there is no fixed answer. I may do subs, I may not, it all depends on the success of the first trial.
 
JohnG said:
I'd be most interested in options 3, 4, and 5. My order of preference depends on total cost including shipping, which is not really predictable at this time?

John


I gave you the estimated costs on the basic kit, shipping costs would be about another $60 I would estimate (depends on where of course - East coast is cheapest, west coast higher). Thats for option 4. Option 5 would be a little more because of the extra weight. The big shipping is on the drivers. Good drivers are heavy and they cost a lot to ship.

Upstate NY would be quite reasonable for the drivers as they come out of NJ.
 
Re: Re: Sub ?

gedlee said:


The thing is that integrating the subs with the mains is room dependent, so there is no fixed answer. I may do subs, I may not, it all depends on the success of the first trial.


I do understand that, and that is not what I had in mind. As you are the person who knows best what the natural roll off of the 10" in a suggested box is, you are in perfect position to suggest ideal crossover frequency and slope in order to integrate with a sub (with minimal phase shift).
What happens below that is - well - up to each individual I suppose. Multiple subs scattered around room, active correction, DRC, you name it. I'm just after the suggested high pass to mate with say 4th order LR on the sub end.
 
Earl,

I looked at the AI speakers and are you talking about doing a baffle like the ESP10 with the roundover on the waveguide/tweeter opening?

As a DIY'r who doesn't like painted baffles at all I would rather have the waveguide etc mount just like a driver on my own veneered baffle. This way, all I would have to do is route the proper sized through hole and rebate for the waveguide and then mount it just like a a driver.

I am sure this would result in extra tooling for you but think this would give the most flexibility to the builder.

Kind regards,

Dennis
 
djarchow said:
Earl,

I looked at the AI speakers and are you talking about doing a baffle like the ESP10 with the roundover on the waveguide/tweeter opening?

As a DIY'r who doesn't like painted baffles at all I would rather have the waveguide etc mount just like a driver on my own veneered baffle. This way, all I would have to do is route the proper sized through hole and rebate for the waveguide and then mount it just like a a driver.

I am sure this would result in extra tooling for you but think this would give the most flexibility to the builder.

Kind regards,

Dennis

As I said, this is not desirable since the rounding on the waveguide is critical to performance. Not doing it is just not something that I would ship. I want to sell something of quality. If someone justs wants a waveguide there are plenty of those on the market.

Sorry.
 
Re: Re: Re: Sub ?

Bratislav said:



I do understand that, and that is not what I had in mind. As you are the person who knows best what the natural roll off of the 10" in a suggested box is, you are in perfect position to suggest ideal crossover frequency and slope in order to integrate with a sub (with minimal phase shift).
What happens below that is - well - up to each individual I suppose. Multiple subs scattered around room, active correction, DRC, you name it. I'm just after the suggested high pass to mate with say 4th order LR on the sub end.

Well the system as I designed it would come with a complete set of specs so matching a sub would not be a problem. But, as I say, I would always set the sub parameters in-situ and that includes the crossover frequency. There is no way to set this independent of the room.
 
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