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Old 22nd October 2010, 09:19 PM   #1951
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Auditions are a great thing, but I think that they are a luxury that drives the price of speakers up well beyond the benefits that they offer. Just as when I design them, auditions should simply be a matter of confirmation and not a factor in a decision. Decisions should be made strictly on concrete data. To have dealers and the historical feature of auditions would double the price that I would have to charge. And that basically doubles the price for everybody! Far far better is too learn to read the data and to insist on being given that data by the manufacturer. That saves an awful lot of money for the consumer. This is precisely how I can sell speaker that costs a fraction of any else in its class.

But hey, if there is someone who is willing, then go for it. Try Duke Lejune just up Idaho, he may be willing - he has a set of Nathans at the moment. But I don't think that there are any Abbeys shorter than Denver.
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Old 22nd October 2010, 10:07 PM   #1952
davebtw is offline davebtw  United States
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Thanks for the quick comment. As a design engineer I agree with you in general. The data, especially if it is real, and not made up or tweaked, is a large part of the decision. I design pro and high end audio gear for a living, but have no experience in acoustics or speakers.

I do trust my ears, but always want to see the data as well.

There are speakers closer than I thought, so that is good news. I probably will have some income soon, through sale of some vintage tubed audio gear from the 60's. I probably will have only one chance to get the speakers I will live with for many years. I want to be sure before I plunk down the cash!

I am very impressed with what you are doing, and want to learn more!

Thanks,

-david BTW
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Old 23rd October 2010, 01:08 AM   #1953
poseidonsvoice is offline poseidonsvoice  United States
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Thanks for the quick comment. As a design engineer I agree with you in general. The data, especially if it is real, and not made up or tweaked, is a large part of the decision. I design pro and high end audio gear for a living, but have no experience in acoustics or speakers.

I do trust my ears, but always want to see the data as well.

There are speakers closer than I thought, so that is good news. I probably will have some income soon, through sale of some vintage tubed audio gear from the 60's. I probably will have only one chance to get the speakers I will live with for many years. I want to be sure before I plunk down the cash!

I am very impressed with what you are doing, and want to learn more!

Thanks,

-david BTW
David,

If you don't have anybody to audition close by, I would strongly suggest you get on a flight and go directly to Geddes' chateau. It's well worth the trip to get the honest truth. It's a whole lot cheaper than getting speakers you may not be satisfied with - at least in the long run. However, if you can audition the Nathan's, they will give you an idea of what the Abbey sounds like. But it's only an idea. Imho, the Abbey is superior, having heard both, I would easily plunk down the small amount of extra cash to go with the Abbey instead of the Nathan.

And Earl is completely correct about *insisting* and then analyzing the data the loudspeaker manufacturer provides you. It's only then you can make an informed decision. If they don't provide you with that data then it's difficult to make that decision as it becomes an irresponsible and misinformed one.

Best of luck,

Anand.
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Old 23rd October 2010, 07:32 PM   #1954
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Anand - a trip here is what I recommend as well. Few people have gone to the extremes that I have in my room and its worth it to see what these extremes get you. From that basis you CAN make an inform decision about what speakers to buy, how many subs to use, what to do with the room and most importantly why you should not spend a lot on electronics.

I don't know of anyone who has been disappointed by a visit - unless I was in a bad mood and didn't offer coffee or something like that!
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Old 23rd October 2010, 09:45 PM   #1955
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I think your setup is proof how much more important the room and speakers are than the things many of us spend much more on. I'm sure that amps and preamps will play a role in improved sound, but when given the choice of 1000 dollars for a receiver or pre/pro and amp, or 30,000 dollars, the improvements are probably incremental, possibly non-existent, and the 29,000 spent on room acoustics would sure make a lot more sense.

I've seen 100,000+ dollar stereo's stuck in the worst rooms and wondered why they even bother. Speakers stuck against the walls, often too far apart, with bookcases or tables between them, equipment setup in such a way to cause pretty poor wire dressing, which I'm sure is adding noise, hardwood floors, no carpet, hard walls, hard ceilings, no absorption, and terrible places to sit. Whats the point.
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Old 23rd October 2010, 09:49 PM   #1956
poseidonsvoice is offline poseidonsvoice  United States
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Anand - a trip here is what I recommend as well. Few people have gone to the extremes that I have in my room and its worth it to see what these extremes get you. From that basis you CAN make an inform decision about what speakers to buy, how many subs to use, what to do with the room and most importantly why you should not spend a lot on electronics.

I don't know of anyone who has been disappointed by a visit - unless I was in a bad mood and didn't offer coffee or something like that!

You forgot to offer me coffee you know. No problem. Next time, we'll go out or I'll bring my own powder to share!

Anand.
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Old 23rd October 2010, 11:39 PM   #1957
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Depends on what kind of powder that is! If its coffee, I don't drink instant.
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Old 24th October 2010, 12:01 AM   #1958
pjpoes is offline pjpoes  United States
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I'd hate to hear your response if it was something other than coffee, the other major export of Columbia.

So Dr. Geddes, I'm wondering if you have any thoughts/plans on upgrading your receiver at some point to handle the new audio codecs. I've completely gone head over heals for the new HD Audio formats on Bluray, they are miles ahead of the older DTS and DD. Even the newer refinements of DTS and DD are great, DD+ for instance sounds miles ahead of DD and DTS, even if it's not as good has True HD or DTS Master Audio. Anyway, I'm curious your opinion on the matter, and if in near time, you have plans to look at ways to add that capability to your system.
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Old 24th October 2010, 05:33 PM   #1959
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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I don't know what receiver I had when you were here, but my current newer one - still a Pioneer - handles all of those codecs. And yes the newer ones are a lot better. Basically they are not compressing as much (don't have to, bit rates are way up) and the algorithms are a lot better.
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Old 24th October 2010, 06:24 PM   #1960
pjpoes is offline pjpoes  United States
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ah good to know. What model do you have now?

If you have a new one, I'll assume you have MCACC. If its the top version of that, I'm wondering if you have tried it and what you think? You already do much of what the "room mode" portion if its correction does, but it has something they call like Full range phase correction, or something like that. I'm not sure what it is, but when first introduced it was indicated in an email to me that it corrected the phase response of each individual speaker across the full range. They wouldn't go into details on how they were doing this, but were very insistent this was not simply a phase control or phase flipper, it uses sophisticated filters to correct the phase, not just reverse it.

The 9 band graphic EQ is of no real interest to me, but even the room mode correction could be used to further improve the bass response, as it could add correction to the low end of the main speakers, which my setup can't do. If yours is setup like mine, I assume you can't either. The Room mode corrector is also not divulged in a good meaningful way, but I was told it uses filters that target the problem area's, not generic PEQ or worse yet, graphic EQ filters. All of this, including the phase correction, makes me wonder if its using a form of FIR filters, but then, I would think it would be silly not to use IIR filters for room mode correction, no?
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