I built the mini monitor version of Jim Griffin's Jordan with the G2si and I absolutely love them. However I use these in my bedroom at fairly low levels. I would like to build the same sound in speakers that I can play at higher levels and I am afraid the Jordan's cannot take the higher levels. How can I build a speaker system with the same or at least very similar characteristics that can play at louder levels (I am not talking ear splitting but still relatively loud)?
Can I do a high pass filter for the Jordan and add a sub woofer? If so how high do I need to go to protect the Jordan?
Is there another DIY speaker system with plans that will result in a similar sound to the mini monitor or MLTL? I really like the characteristics of the G2si so if there were a system incorporating a G2si that would be of interest. I do not have the expertise or equipment to design a ground up speaker system.
Jim if you are listening, thanks for the design.
Can I do a high pass filter for the Jordan and add a sub woofer? If so how high do I need to go to protect the Jordan?
Is there another DIY speaker system with plans that will result in a similar sound to the mini monitor or MLTL? I really like the characteristics of the G2si so if there were a system incorporating a G2si that would be of interest. I do not have the expertise or equipment to design a ground up speaker system.
Jim if you are listening, thanks for the design.
Thanks for the nice words and I'm glad that you like your speakers.
On adding a subwoofer: What I would do is to use an active subwoofer that has a plate amp which has the ability to adjust both the crossover frequency and the output level to match with the Jordans. Most plate amps have at least a second order high pass filter so the Jordans would be pretty well protected against leakage of the lowest bass into them. If you have mini-monitors, then I would stuff their port tubes so that they become effectively a sealed box. That would help protect the Jordan driver even more.
I don't know how much loud you listen but I have used my Jordan speakers for may years as my daily listeners and they fill my 15' x 23' listening area with more than enough sound for me. Of course if you are a basshead, you can never have enough bass so an active sub will fill that need. I suggest that you give your speakers a listen when integrated with the sub and you suspect that you will be very happy I'm sure.
The AC G2si tweeters were on Parts Express' deal of the day yesterday so I hope that some of you noticed.
Jim
On adding a subwoofer: What I would do is to use an active subwoofer that has a plate amp which has the ability to adjust both the crossover frequency and the output level to match with the Jordans. Most plate amps have at least a second order high pass filter so the Jordans would be pretty well protected against leakage of the lowest bass into them. If you have mini-monitors, then I would stuff their port tubes so that they become effectively a sealed box. That would help protect the Jordan driver even more.
I don't know how much loud you listen but I have used my Jordan speakers for may years as my daily listeners and they fill my 15' x 23' listening area with more than enough sound for me. Of course if you are a basshead, you can never have enough bass so an active sub will fill that need. I suggest that you give your speakers a listen when integrated with the sub and you suspect that you will be very happy I'm sure.
The AC G2si tweeters were on Parts Express' deal of the day yesterday so I hope that some of you noticed.
Jim
I would agree. I have the sealed mini-monitors working with two sealed subs using the Dayton 315HF drivers driven by plate amps filling my living room. Takes some work to match them, but I fill a large space driving them with a VT-130 and have had no problems, including just listening to the 1812.
I also just finished building a pair of top hats with the Aurum Cantus to fit on top of the Pete Millett TL Jordan enclosure. Turns out this enclosure is also 7.5 inches wide and the Aurum end up within about a half inch of the top of the Jordans, so very close to the layout of the mini-monitors. Better bass out of the Jordans, but I have yet to get them to match to subs to my satisfaction. Will try to post pictures later.
I also just finished building a pair of top hats with the Aurum Cantus to fit on top of the Pete Millett TL Jordan enclosure. Turns out this enclosure is also 7.5 inches wide and the Aurum end up within about a half inch of the top of the Jordans, so very close to the layout of the mini-monitors. Better bass out of the Jordans, but I have yet to get them to match to subs to my satisfaction. Will try to post pictures later.
Jim and hayenc,
Thanks for your quick responses. I have looked at the Dayton sub woofer plate amps on the Parts Express Web site and they have low pass filters, but not high pass. Is simply stuffing the port sufficient to protect the Jordan's without adding a cap to filter out the low frequencies? Or did I miss something with the plate amps?
Thanks for your quick responses. I have looked at the Dayton sub woofer plate amps on the Parts Express Web site and they have low pass filters, but not high pass. Is simply stuffing the port sufficient to protect the Jordan's without adding a cap to filter out the low frequencies? Or did I miss something with the plate amps?
I am using the 240 W Sub Amp. PE part number 300-804. I am actually driving it on the low-level inputs from a separate output on my preamp.
According to the manual, the High-level outputs, which require you feed the High-level Inputs from your amplifier speaker outputs, have an internal 6dB/octave 125 Hz high pass filter. I have not tried running the Jordan/Aurum mini's in that configuration yet.
According to the manual, the High-level outputs, which require you feed the High-level Inputs from your amplifier speaker outputs, have an internal 6dB/octave 125 Hz high pass filter. I have not tried running the Jordan/Aurum mini's in that configuration yet.
One last note on the Dayton/PE subs. They are not quite as crisp as the Jordans, even with both in a sealed box. I just don't have the budget for Rythmiks just now.
Something about having bought a Mitsubishi DLP from Showcase (Tweeter) a while back and dealing with it being dead and questionable warranty service.
Something about having bought a Mitsubishi DLP from Showcase (Tweeter) a while back and dealing with it being dead and questionable warranty service.
hayenc,
Interesting comment about the Daytons not being as fast as the Jordans. I currently have one Rel sub in my main listening room. I assume that would be fast enough, but if the crossover is to be at 120Hz I would probably want a second sub. Do you think the Rythmiks would work with the Rel or would I need two Rythmiks? Or would the crossover at 90 Hz. work?
Interesting comment about the Daytons not being as fast as the Jordans. I currently have one Rel sub in my main listening room. I assume that would be fast enough, but if the crossover is to be at 120Hz I would probably want a second sub. Do you think the Rythmiks would work with the Rel or would I need two Rythmiks? Or would the crossover at 90 Hz. work?
My main reason for two subs in my main listening area is for imaging and a balanced soundstage. I have not been able to have one sub not pull the image in its direction, no matter how low I try to take the crossover.
I do have a single Vandersteen sub in my home theater with the 3A's there, but I am not as concerned with the soundstage there.
Not sure you would want to mix subs. Also, the Rythmiks are a servo system, so you want amp and driver from them.
So basic answer would be your room setup and how critical you want the sound to be.
Craig
I do have a single Vandersteen sub in my home theater with the 3A's there, but I am not as concerned with the soundstage there.
Not sure you would want to mix subs. Also, the Rythmiks are a servo system, so you want amp and driver from them.
So basic answer would be your room setup and how critical you want the sound to be.
Craig
My main speakers are Martin Logan SL3 with the single Rel sub. The crossover if I remember correctly is quite low maybe 34Hz. so imaging is not an issue. But going higher with the crossover could affect the imaging. I definitely do not have golden ears that can distinguish between interconnects. That said, having built the mini monitors, I can hear how they image better than the SL3 and have a cleaner crisper sound.
In any case thanks for the input.
Lindsay
In any case thanks for the input.
Lindsay
Rythmik subwoofers and soundstage
Hello,
Regarding a subwoofer pulling the image towards it: as far as I know, this is due to the harmonics being produced well above the fundamental, and THOSE are very localizable as the wavelengths involved are in a much more sensitive region. In my experience, the Rythmik produces FAR less harmonics than most other drivers.
I used to use a JBL 2226 woofer as a subwoofer using the multiple outputs from my computer soundcard to make a simple active 2 way system with mono sub (courtesy of the crossover plug-in standard in Foobar). With a 4th order LP filter at 80 Hz., the 2226 driver was able to be easily identified. The Rythmik driver (sans servo - was simply hooked up to a spare amplifier channel) was MUCH "quieter", richer, and better suited to the extremely inappropriate application: the driver sitting on the floor pointing up, and connected hurriedly to add some low-frequency content to music, when using the computer as a source.
As the JBL 2226 driver is VERY high-quality (though not a subwoofer - it's a PA woofer, but has a well-engineered motor and a substantial 4" voice coil and tight gap, achieving high efficiency for a 15" driver, although at the usual expense of VLF capability) - I was REALLY surprised by how much better the Rythmik sounded.
Point is: I can't imagine the Rythmik not having substantially less distortion than even a high-quality subwoofer like a REL. The Rythmik is (most likely) simply in a different class...
Having the subwoofer be able to properly reproduce 20 Hz and below is also of enormous, albeit under-represented benefit. I didn't expect MUSIC to sound any better with the subwoofer (when I did finally build a box and use the servo amplifier), but it did. I've been really really pleased with my sub, and I had high expectations.
The only other thing that made as big a difference was the Behringer DEQ2496 speaker/room-correction box, but that's because I've never had the real estate to properly position the speakers...
Just my two cents...
-Tal
Hello,
Regarding a subwoofer pulling the image towards it: as far as I know, this is due to the harmonics being produced well above the fundamental, and THOSE are very localizable as the wavelengths involved are in a much more sensitive region. In my experience, the Rythmik produces FAR less harmonics than most other drivers.
I used to use a JBL 2226 woofer as a subwoofer using the multiple outputs from my computer soundcard to make a simple active 2 way system with mono sub (courtesy of the crossover plug-in standard in Foobar). With a 4th order LP filter at 80 Hz., the 2226 driver was able to be easily identified. The Rythmik driver (sans servo - was simply hooked up to a spare amplifier channel) was MUCH "quieter", richer, and better suited to the extremely inappropriate application: the driver sitting on the floor pointing up, and connected hurriedly to add some low-frequency content to music, when using the computer as a source.
As the JBL 2226 driver is VERY high-quality (though not a subwoofer - it's a PA woofer, but has a well-engineered motor and a substantial 4" voice coil and tight gap, achieving high efficiency for a 15" driver, although at the usual expense of VLF capability) - I was REALLY surprised by how much better the Rythmik sounded.
Point is: I can't imagine the Rythmik not having substantially less distortion than even a high-quality subwoofer like a REL. The Rythmik is (most likely) simply in a different class...
Having the subwoofer be able to properly reproduce 20 Hz and below is also of enormous, albeit under-represented benefit. I didn't expect MUSIC to sound any better with the subwoofer (when I did finally build a box and use the servo amplifier), but it did. I've been really really pleased with my sub, and I had high expectations.
The only other thing that made as big a difference was the Behringer DEQ2496 speaker/room-correction box, but that's because I've never had the real estate to properly position the speakers...
Just my two cents...
-Tal
hayenc said:
Hey,
what do you think about these speakers?
CES speakers
Renato
PS I hope the URL attachment works, it is the first time I do it.
what do you think about these speakers?
CES speakers
Renato
PS I hope the URL attachment works, it is the first time I do it.
You want loud, accurate, etc. of a small room size FLH in a relatively modest size sub box: http://cgi.ebay.com/SERVODRIVE-CONT...336821976&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65%3A3|39%3A1|240%3A1318
GM
GM
I've just completed my version of the MLTL with a ribbon after running the Jordan FR with a BSC consisting of 1.5mH and 5ohm resistor. To sum up my thoughts after 25 hours of playing I must say that the top end is better, but I feel something is missing overall. This is especially true in the bass department. It seems as if the bass has changed and no longer is as solid. May this be due to capacitor burn in? I use a 6.8uF obbligatto cap in parallel with the jordan and solen caps for the ACas shown in JG's white paper . Otherwise, the set up is similar (aleph 5, B1 and DDDAC).
Does this seem familiar or have I managed to mess things up?
Best regards,
Folke
Does this seem familiar or have I managed to mess things up?
Best regards,
Folke
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