Colin & others,
Unfortunately these online x/o calculators produce nothing but rubbish, that is not even remotely related to proper x/o design.
In order to properly design a x/o you need in-box SPL and Z measurements of both drivers, including inter driver delay. If done digitally (ARTA, HOLM REW), thus produced .frd and .zma files need to be imported in XSim. BoxSim, Leap lsp Cad and the likes thereof. Check e.g. the XSim thread here on Diyaudio.
Proper filter design is much more relevant than random use of Boutiqe capacitors.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck
Eelco
Unfortunately these online x/o calculators produce nothing but rubbish, that is not even remotely related to proper x/o design.
In order to properly design a x/o you need in-box SPL and Z measurements of both drivers, including inter driver delay. If done digitally (ARTA, HOLM REW), thus produced .frd and .zma files need to be imported in XSim. BoxSim, Leap lsp Cad and the likes thereof. Check e.g. the XSim thread here on Diyaudio.
Proper filter design is much more relevant than random use of Boutiqe capacitors.
Hope this helps.
Good Luck
Eelco
My original crossover was derived via the method suggested by Boden. In-box measurements were taken within the specific enclosure. LspCAD was then used to computer model/optimize the network performance.
My LspCAD version 5.2 is 12-13 years old but Ingemar Johnansson of IJData still offers LspCAD for sale.
My LspCAD version 5.2 is 12-13 years old but Ingemar Johnansson of IJData still offers LspCAD for sale.
Be wary. Real world sensitivity is much less than specified.
XOing a tweeter with the B200 is compromised by the B200's tendency to go laser-like as the frequency goes up. Adding phase plugs can significantly improve that.
You can use the Jordan/AC xo as a guide for how to do the tweeter but you really need to do the XO fresh.
dave
Just finished preliminary tests on my concrete (yes concrete) t lines, designed and built by Jon espley, but my mod has atop the aurum cantus. Initial impressions, absolutely blooming amazing. It's kept the lovely signature I loved with the JX92S but added a real AIR with the ribbons.
Will build a neat enclosure for the ribbons to finish them off, and post some pics.
Will build a neat enclosure for the ribbons to finish them off, and post some pics.
Hello !
It's more or less 10 years I'm using the JG minimonitor as my main speakers, paired with some clones of pass amplifiers, and I have been really happy with them so far. A family with three sons leave me very short of time ( not to say money!) so, I've left for a long time all of my hobbies. Now it seems that in the future i'll be able to grab a little bit of time to work on something new.
A few days ago, while i was trying to put a little bit of order in my garage, I've discovered that I still have a pair of jx92 NIB and a couple of G2si in a never ended 3 way speaker. So It sounds a good idea to build the mltl +ribbon thing.
Does anyone of you have the plans to build the box already done? I've tried to search for them , but I was not able to find anything.
Many thanks for your help.
BR from Italy.
Paolo
It's more or less 10 years I'm using the JG minimonitor as my main speakers, paired with some clones of pass amplifiers, and I have been really happy with them so far. A family with three sons leave me very short of time ( not to say money!) so, I've left for a long time all of my hobbies. Now it seems that in the future i'll be able to grab a little bit of time to work on something new.
A few days ago, while i was trying to put a little bit of order in my garage, I've discovered that I still have a pair of jx92 NIB and a couple of G2si in a never ended 3 way speaker. So It sounds a good idea to build the mltl +ribbon thing.
Does anyone of you have the plans to build the box already done? I've tried to search for them , but I was not able to find anything.
Many thanks for your help.
BR from Italy.
Paolo
Sorry all, But Jim has given some infos on the dimensions on the box in the upper part of the post, so , more or less I'm able to do the box. Can you please give me the height of the center of the speakers and the position of the rear tube pls?
I assume that stuffing is to be made in the upper part just below the jx92...
Thanks a lot for your help.
Paolo
I assume that stuffing is to be made in the upper part just below the jx92...
Thanks a lot for your help.
Paolo
Hello all, my knowledge is scarce but I try to read a lot so please have a bit of patience if stupid questions might come up.
My setup is:
- different sources - mostly streaming from PC, turntable in the near future, TV for Home theatre
- minidsp 4x10 hd - recent acquisition
- Parasound Halo Integrated - to drive 2 Eikonas/ch connected in series in a DCR build
- 1 (soon to be 2) sealed subwoofer based on SEAS L26ROY driven by Crown XTi2000. Maybe adding another one in the future
My plan is to add a tweeter in a new build based on Jordan Eikona TL2 design - http://ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/EikonaTL2.pdf
The tweeter would be actively crossed to the mids with the minidsp and powered separately
I'm asking for advice on the following topics:
- would employing a D'Appolito arrangement adversely affect the the performance of the 2 Eikonas in the TL2? Is it a better solution to add the tweeter just above the 2 drivers?
- in the case of MTM, should a smaller tweeter be used? (other then AC G2Si). Any suggestions?
- whatever the arrangement, what crossing frequency to start with and what slope? (for AC G2Si)
- are there any better suggestions for the tweeters other then G2Si, to match the Eikonas, in a reasonable price range? (up to 400USD)
- with active crossing, is it necessary to add a capacitor in order not to short the amp?
The reason for all this "complicated" build is to be able to easily switch between all analog to fully digital with multiple subs.
My setup is:
- different sources - mostly streaming from PC, turntable in the near future, TV for Home theatre
- minidsp 4x10 hd - recent acquisition
- Parasound Halo Integrated - to drive 2 Eikonas/ch connected in series in a DCR build
- 1 (soon to be 2) sealed subwoofer based on SEAS L26ROY driven by Crown XTi2000. Maybe adding another one in the future
My plan is to add a tweeter in a new build based on Jordan Eikona TL2 design - http://ejjordan.co.uk/PDFs/EikonaTL2.pdf
The tweeter would be actively crossed to the mids with the minidsp and powered separately
I'm asking for advice on the following topics:
- would employing a D'Appolito arrangement adversely affect the the performance of the 2 Eikonas in the TL2? Is it a better solution to add the tweeter just above the 2 drivers?
- in the case of MTM, should a smaller tweeter be used? (other then AC G2Si). Any suggestions?
- whatever the arrangement, what crossing frequency to start with and what slope? (for AC G2Si)
- are there any better suggestions for the tweeters other then G2Si, to match the Eikonas, in a reasonable price range? (up to 400USD)
- with active crossing, is it necessary to add a capacitor in order not to short the amp?
The reason for all this "complicated" build is to be able to easily switch between all analog to fully digital with multiple subs.
- The D'Appolito will affect the performance of the Eikonas in the TL. They are placed as close as possible to the required point in the line for best performance, so separating them may cause problems.
- If you require a tweeter, I'd suggest fitting it above as there is plenty of room on the baffle.
- The G2Si has a good track record in use with the JX92S so should work very well with the Eikonas. We're not aware of any other reasonably-priced tweeters used with the Eikonas but there may well be some out there.
- If you require a tweeter, I'd suggest fitting it above as there is plenty of room on the baffle.
- The G2Si has a good track record in use with the JX92S so should work very well with the Eikonas. We're not aware of any other reasonably-priced tweeters used with the Eikonas but there may well be some out there.
The original 'crossing over Jordan with a ribbon tweeter' was designed for the JX92S. The focus was upon blending/extending the broad directivity of the Jordan driver with a small ribbon tweeter such as the Aurum Cantus G2si. For the MLTL version my goal was to position the tweeter at ear level height for a sitting listener. The crossover was intended to be in the 2 to 2.5 kHz area wherein the off axis performance of the Jordan unit first started to roll-off. The goal was to use a small (short) ribbon tweeter --say 100 mm (4 inches) diameter--as the driver.
For the dual Eikona design one could use a small ribbon or dome tweeter to achieve similar goals. For a MTM version you could position the tweeter between the two drivers at the center between the two drivers. This change which would necessitate moving the Eikonas apart to place the tweeter between them. Looking at the dimensions of the dual Eikona design the location of the tweeter would be about ear level if one has a small riser (say another 18 mm thickness) as the base plate.
Another thought would be, as Colin suggests, is to employ a MMT arrangement with the tweeter above two Eikona mid drivers. A shortcoming of this approach is that the tweeter placement would be placed above ear level.
The MTM version would likely need to be crossed over at 2kHz or below to achieve good performance because of the interplay separation between the two mid drivers. For the MMT version one could go to a 2.5 way arrangement with the lowest mid driver rolling off at a lower frequency to address the baffle step effect.
Small ribbon tweeters are still available from manufacturers such as Aurum Cantus, LPG, Fountek, and others. During the last decade small AMT drivers have become available from several manufacturers. Mundorf is one AMT supplier which has several models which would appear to satisfy most needs.
Jim
For the dual Eikona design one could use a small ribbon or dome tweeter to achieve similar goals. For a MTM version you could position the tweeter between the two drivers at the center between the two drivers. This change which would necessitate moving the Eikonas apart to place the tweeter between them. Looking at the dimensions of the dual Eikona design the location of the tweeter would be about ear level if one has a small riser (say another 18 mm thickness) as the base plate.
Another thought would be, as Colin suggests, is to employ a MMT arrangement with the tweeter above two Eikona mid drivers. A shortcoming of this approach is that the tweeter placement would be placed above ear level.
The MTM version would likely need to be crossed over at 2kHz or below to achieve good performance because of the interplay separation between the two mid drivers. For the MMT version one could go to a 2.5 way arrangement with the lowest mid driver rolling off at a lower frequency to address the baffle step effect.
Small ribbon tweeters are still available from manufacturers such as Aurum Cantus, LPG, Fountek, and others. During the last decade small AMT drivers have become available from several manufacturers. Mundorf is one AMT supplier which has several models which would appear to satisfy most needs.
Jim
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Ideally, adding a tweeter would involve a redesign of the entire system. Perhaps a simpler approach would be to build a sealed or reflect enclosure for one Eikona and experiment with adding a tweeter to that before trying the twin enclosure system.
Or use the DCR as a basis for experimentation - the wider baffle may enable you to place the tweeter alongside the two Eikonas, as long as you reverse the position on the matching enclosure for a mirror-image pair.
As Jim says, Mundorf have added quite a range of AMT tweeters. Watch out which models can be crossed over low enough
Mundorf AMT Tweeters | Hifi Collective
There isn't the same requirement for a tweeter with the Eikona as the JX92S as it doesn't have the 92's rising HF response.
Or use the DCR as a basis for experimentation - the wider baffle may enable you to place the tweeter alongside the two Eikonas, as long as you reverse the position on the matching enclosure for a mirror-image pair.
As Jim says, Mundorf have added quite a range of AMT tweeters. Watch out which models can be crossed over low enough
Mundorf AMT Tweeters | Hifi Collective
There isn't the same requirement for a tweeter with the Eikona as the JX92S as it doesn't have the 92's rising HF response.
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For an MTM using FR drivers in the TL2, if one moves the FRs as close to the side as possibe (changing the wxd dimensions to give a wider box to make it easier), the tweeter off to the side would be my choice. I’d look at one of th enew smallish Heil-like ribbon tweeters.
I like the idea of a 2-way, i found the Eikona still has some issues up top.
Like this (much less critical here with a 250 Hz XO).
dave
I like the idea of a 2-way, i found the Eikona still has some issues up top.
Like this (much less critical here with a 250 Hz XO).
dave
Awsome!!!
I am going to do the same with my jx92s (ribbon) and my B5 active crossover. Could you suggest me a passive crossover network?
Thanks
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