I want to build some speakers, its the first time ive done anything like this.
At the moment i am using a modded quad 44 power amp (100w)
and a pair of mission 733 floor standers.
I fancy building a full range horn, what can i expect it to sound like compared to my missions?
Because its my first build, for ease im going to use the recomended horn enclosure recomended by fostex for the particular driver, unless anyone has a better recomendation, but which driver should i choose?
Im not looking for huge volume, im more after clarity and detail at normal listening volumes.
Any advice appreciated.
Thanx
P.S. stupid question this but just to make sure, as its one cone, full range, i assume no crossover ect in needed, just speaker wires connected to the terminals on the driver?
At the moment i am using a modded quad 44 power amp (100w)
and a pair of mission 733 floor standers.
I fancy building a full range horn, what can i expect it to sound like compared to my missions?
Because its my first build, for ease im going to use the recomended horn enclosure recomended by fostex for the particular driver, unless anyone has a better recomendation, but which driver should i choose?
Im not looking for huge volume, im more after clarity and detail at normal listening volumes.
Any advice appreciated.
Thanx
P.S. stupid question this but just to make sure, as its one cone, full range, i assume no crossover ect in needed, just speaker wires connected to the terminals on the driver?
Thanx for the link, and the info.
I like what he's built in the link but why that inclosure rather than the fostex recomended enclosure?
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/recom_enclose/206e_enclrev.pdf
I would have thought they know how to get the best out of their drivers.
I like what he's built in the link but why that inclosure rather than the fostex recomended enclosure?
http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_comp/pdf/recom_enclose/206e_enclrev.pdf
I would have thought they know how to get the best out of their drivers.
Hi,
it seems the BK201 design has been discarded by Fostex
in favour of a design that only uses right angled cuts.
IMO the Solo 206 cabinet is more like what rear horn loading should look
like than the latest cabinet design - which I'd describe as extremely crude.
I'd also describe it as a number of linked resonant cavities in series
rather than horn loading - which requires a constantly expanding
cross sectional area in my book.
Also I think the form factor of TGs design is much nicer, though
you could add a couple of inches to the width of his design.
/sreten.
it seems the BK201 design has been discarded by Fostex
in favour of a design that only uses right angled cuts.
IMO the Solo 206 cabinet is more like what rear horn loading should look
like than the latest cabinet design - which I'd describe as extremely crude.
I'd also describe it as a number of linked resonant cavities in series
rather than horn loading - which requires a constantly expanding
cross sectional area in my book.
Also I think the form factor of TGs design is much nicer, though
you could add a couple of inches to the width of his design.
/sreten.yeah, i see your point.
Reading about these though, he says their best for valve amps, will they sound good with my 100w ss quad 405-2?
Also, he said there best with intimate jazz.
I like alot of different music, from jazz and classical, to rock and electronic.
Am i looking in the right direction for my new speakers?
I like my missions, but they sound there best at volumes too high for my neghbours and girlfriend, so i want to build a pair of speakers that will give me more clarity at lower listening volumes.
I supose if im only using a couple of watts of my available power, thats not so different from a low power valve amp?
Reading about these though, he says their best for valve amps, will they sound good with my 100w ss quad 405-2?
Also, he said there best with intimate jazz.
I like alot of different music, from jazz and classical, to rock and electronic.
Am i looking in the right direction for my new speakers?
I like my missions, but they sound there best at volumes too high for my neghbours and girlfriend, so i want to build a pair of speakers that will give me more clarity at lower listening volumes.
I supose if im only using a couple of watts of my available power, thats not so different from a low power valve amp?
Hi,
i'd say you need better quality speakers, checkout :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html
May not go as loud as the missions with 100W, but with a well
made braced cabinet should eat them for breakfast detail wise.
/sreten.
i'd say you need better quality speakers, checkout :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html
May not go as loud as the missions with 100W, but with a well
made braced cabinet should eat them for breakfast detail wise.
/sreten.With the quantity of power you've got available, the sensitivity of any back loaded horn design would probably be less important than the synergy of amp/speaker combination, as well as room placement / WAF issues. .
The cost difference between the FE126 and 127 is minimal, and the latter driver is much more flexible in terms of enclosure design.
I've built or heard quite a few of the design variations in the "reference" thread using FE127s, as well as several horn designs with the FE126 and FE108EZ. (also quite a few CSS FR & WR125 variants)
While I've concluded my personal preference as a coin toss between 2 particular horn designs, (Ron Clarke's A126 and the freshly minted and still evolving FrugelHorn) it's important to consider a couple of factors:
I'm listening exclusively to low power tubed gear ( SE and class A P/P EL84 designs); particularly on either of the horn systems, a SS amp ( mini-Aleph classA 15W) sounds more detailed and analytical, and less emotionally involving.
With all due respect to the venerable Quad 405-2 amp, once you've experienced the synergy between hollow-state and FR horns, it's a whole 'nother ball game.
Proud poppa syndrome - as with many DIYers, I've built or tweaked most of the non-source components in both my audio and videa systems, so it's hard to be completely objective. A few months ago I had to donate my Denon AV receiver to my son, as it become fatiguing to watch TV on my Heil AMT/ Fostex speakers without tube amps involved.
Having said that, my mom and everyone who's heard them are quite thrilled with the performance and size/form factor of the folded mono-pole FE127. Dave (Planet10) can probably dig out the photos of same. They're just not very big, and unlike the rear mouthed horns, don't rely on corners for reinforcement of the lowest octaves.
And don't forget the Fonkens - not quite as stealthy or easy a build as the MLTLs, but superior performance.
Plans for all of these designs available at:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes-fostex.html
The cost difference between the FE126 and 127 is minimal, and the latter driver is much more flexible in terms of enclosure design.
I've built or heard quite a few of the design variations in the "reference" thread using FE127s, as well as several horn designs with the FE126 and FE108EZ. (also quite a few CSS FR & WR125 variants)
While I've concluded my personal preference as a coin toss between 2 particular horn designs, (Ron Clarke's A126 and the freshly minted and still evolving FrugelHorn) it's important to consider a couple of factors:
I'm listening exclusively to low power tubed gear ( SE and class A P/P EL84 designs); particularly on either of the horn systems, a SS amp ( mini-Aleph classA 15W) sounds more detailed and analytical, and less emotionally involving.
With all due respect to the venerable Quad 405-2 amp, once you've experienced the synergy between hollow-state and FR horns, it's a whole 'nother ball game.
Proud poppa syndrome - as with many DIYers, I've built or tweaked most of the non-source components in both my audio and videa systems, so it's hard to be completely objective. A few months ago I had to donate my Denon AV receiver to my son, as it become fatiguing to watch TV on my Heil AMT/ Fostex speakers without tube amps involved.
Having said that, my mom and everyone who's heard them are quite thrilled with the performance and size/form factor of the folded mono-pole FE127. Dave (Planet10) can probably dig out the photos of same. They're just not very big, and unlike the rear mouthed horns, don't rely on corners for reinforcement of the lowest octaves.
And don't forget the Fonkens - not quite as stealthy or easy a build as the MLTLs, but superior performance.
Plans for all of these designs available at:
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/boxes-fostex.html
Hmmm, im getting confused now.
Luckily WAF in not a problem really, only approval of volume is a problem.
What speakers look like, how big they are, and where they are placed is entirely up to me.
Unfortunately im in temporary accomodation so cant say what kind of room they will be in next year.
I must admit im getting confused by all the different options available to me, should i be looking at something other than fostex drivers?
Im happy with my amp, the recent mods have helped lots.
I suppose my requirements are
Around £100 for drivers
quality, clear sound at low to normal listening volumes (if i want loud ill switch over to my missions)
Im no stranger to woodwork, so complexity of cabinets isnt a problem
Would be nice if they looked funky/retro/60's sci fi, but obviously that isnt exactly important.
I liked the idea of the fostex drivers as they seem good for the money.
I liked the idea if full range as it reduces the crossover requirements (electronics are still a bit of a mystery to me)
I liked the horn idea as i assumed it would improve the bass at low volumes.
So, horn or no horn?
Fostex or other?
Turning ito a bit of a general speaker thread now
Chrisb, you say synergy of amp speaker combination is the more important issue.
What speakers would give me good lowish volume clarity with my 405-2?
Thanx
Luckily WAF in not a problem really, only approval of volume is a problem.
What speakers look like, how big they are, and where they are placed is entirely up to me.
Unfortunately im in temporary accomodation so cant say what kind of room they will be in next year.
I must admit im getting confused by all the different options available to me, should i be looking at something other than fostex drivers?
Im happy with my amp, the recent mods have helped lots.
I suppose my requirements are
Around £100 for drivers
quality, clear sound at low to normal listening volumes (if i want loud ill switch over to my missions)
Im no stranger to woodwork, so complexity of cabinets isnt a problem
Would be nice if they looked funky/retro/60's sci fi, but obviously that isnt exactly important.
I liked the idea of the fostex drivers as they seem good for the money.
I liked the idea if full range as it reduces the crossover requirements (electronics are still a bit of a mystery to me)
I liked the horn idea as i assumed it would improve the bass at low volumes.
So, horn or no horn?
Fostex or other?
Turning ito a bit of a general speaker thread now
Chrisb, you say synergy of amp speaker combination is the more important issue.
What speakers would give me good lowish volume clarity with my 405-2?
Thanx
Graeme:
By synergy, I was very politely trying to suggest that "upgrades" aside, 405 amp could be next on your list for review, and that low powered valves would be my prime candidate. Try to get your hands on one for an audition in your system.
That issue and WAF / room placement factors aside, the Fostex FE126E in a back loaded horn is a very capable performer - as witnessed by the continued success of Ed Schilling's design (and resultant temporary supply problem with this driver
) At the risk of repetition, be advised this design and the others mentioned below require the unobstructed use of corners for maximum bass performance.
For as much merit as it will now carry (now that I've repeatedly insulted your choice of amplifier
) , I can highly recommend this driver, but not in any of the Fostex cabinets . I've built 2 different "factory" designs (FE103BLH & FE126 "hybrid"), and didn't particularly care for the sound of either.
You couldn't go too far wrong with the stock Buschorn MKI (not MKII) design - just increase the height of the CC to allow for a 4" driver, or even better the Frugelhorn as per Planet10 website drawing. Note that this latter design is still evolving.
I won't secondguess anyone's woodworking skills, - these are not particularly complicated enclosures to build, and with the option to open up the internal void on the FrugelHorn, some very funky aesthetics can be achieved.
In my current (very small) room, the dynamics, warmth and soundstage are very satistfying at levels from approx 60dB SPL on up.
By synergy, I was very politely trying to suggest that "upgrades" aside, 405 amp could be next on your list for review, and that low powered valves would be my prime candidate. Try to get your hands on one for an audition in your system.
That issue and WAF / room placement factors aside, the Fostex FE126E in a back loaded horn is a very capable performer - as witnessed by the continued success of Ed Schilling's design (and resultant temporary supply problem with this driver
) At the risk of repetition, be advised this design and the others mentioned below require the unobstructed use of corners for maximum bass performance. For as much merit as it will now carry (now that I've repeatedly insulted your choice of amplifier
) , I can highly recommend this driver, but not in any of the Fostex cabinets . I've built 2 different "factory" designs (FE103BLH & FE126 "hybrid"), and didn't particularly care for the sound of either. You couldn't go too far wrong with the stock Buschorn MKI (not MKII) design - just increase the height of the CC to allow for a 4" driver, or even better the Frugelhorn as per Planet10 website drawing. Note that this latter design is still evolving.
I won't secondguess anyone's woodworking skills, - these are not particularly complicated enclosures to build, and with the option to open up the internal void on the FrugelHorn, some very funky aesthetics can be achieved.
In my current (very small) room, the dynamics, warmth and soundstage are very satistfying at levels from approx 60dB SPL on up.
Thanx, thats helped lots.
I am thinking of building a small valve amp, have been toying with the idea for ages. Maybe ill build that first then and see how it compares to my quad then build some new speakers more matched to the new amp.
Use of corners should not be a problem, providing the next house we live in is suitable.
Oh, and i dont feel you've insulted my choice of amplifier
Ok, so you dont like em i assume, and feel its a bit of a weak link.
It is however the best amplifier ive owned, not that ive owned many, beats my cyrus straightline easy. It may however been the weak link im my low volume quality quest.
Thanx for all the advice.
By the way, whats 'hollow state'?
Hi sreten!
I'm little confused about your posts... Do you recommend these http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html over FE206E BLH? In which ways it will perform better? Just curious...
Thanks Martin
I'm little confused about your posts... Do you recommend these http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html over FE206E BLH? In which ways it will perform better? Just curious...
Thanks Martin
graeme uk said:
I didn't like their BR enclosure for the FE127E so went my own way to suit it's intended application
graeme uk said:
Doesnt help much though
Doesnt really matter, my only amp options for a while are my quad and a small valve ill build soon.
Graeme - for a introduction to valves, small is definitely the way to go. For speakers with the sensitivity of FE126 in a BLH, I can highly recommend the Bottlehead S.E.X amp. Unfortunate model name - excellent bang for the buck, and very thorough assembly instructions.
For the slightly more resourceful, Eli Duttman's El Cheapo is a great design - considerably more power than the Bottlehead design, and P/P output allows for greater control of more complex speaker/XO loads. I've recycled a couple of vintage Scott integrated amps using the basic circuit topology with most satisfactory results.
Thanx, im definately going to build an amp first.
Looks like im going to build a kit, probably one of these
http://www.world-designs.co.uk/acatalog/kel84.pdf
Once ive built that, ill look into speakers again.
Although the same company make some very well regarded speaker kits too that have started to tempt me.
But the fostex horn route is much cheaper, so ill probably try that first.
Unfortunately im tied up for the next few weeks with my other love, the second stage of mods (engine and gearbox) for my Karmann Ghia are ready to get on with so i need to dedicate my time to that for the next week or so.
Then its amp time
Looks like im going to build a kit, probably one of these
http://www.world-designs.co.uk/acatalog/kel84.pdf
Once ive built that, ill look into speakers again.
Although the same company make some very well regarded speaker kits too that have started to tempt me.
But the fostex horn route is much cheaper, so ill probably try that first.
Unfortunately im tied up for the next few weeks with my other love, the second stage of mods (engine and gearbox) for my Karmann Ghia are ready to get on with so i need to dedicate my time to that for the next week or so.
Then its amp time
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.