Re: how to acquire notch filter parts?
Looks correct. Check the wattage of the resistor: The resistor in the Needle kit from lautsprechershop.de is rated for 10W.
You can try the software notch filter I posted earlier in this thread if you want to see if your needles need filtering. The filter reduces the frequencies around 2500Hz by more than 6dB, which should definitely be noticeable.
gychang said:
Looks correct. Check the wattage of the resistor: The resistor in the Needle kit from lautsprechershop.de is rated for 10W.
You can try the software notch filter I posted earlier in this thread if you want to see if your needles need filtering. The filter reduces the frequencies around 2500Hz by more than 6dB, which should definitely be noticeable.
You know, sometimes the needles get a little ear-stabby. I've been wondering why, and it just occurred to me this morning that it may be because I've found their upper volume limit. It kind of threw me - they don't sound like other systems I've driven past their limits.
It kind of sounds like something I addressed successfully in a different speaker with some basket dampening. So maybe I'll try that. If that doesn't work I'll be wondering if a subwoofer would take enough load off of the needles to let them go louder, or if I just need to keep the needles for lower volume listening and switch to something capable of higher SPLs where I've got the needles now.
Has anyone else been trying to push the volume limits of the Needles? I like mine a bunch, and would be happy to keep using them rather than switch...
Of course, switching is fun as well....
It kind of sounds like something I addressed successfully in a different speaker with some basket dampening. So maybe I'll try that. If that doesn't work I'll be wondering if a subwoofer would take enough load off of the needles to let them go louder, or if I just need to keep the needles for lower volume listening and switch to something capable of higher SPLs where I've got the needles now.
Has anyone else been trying to push the volume limits of the Needles? I like mine a bunch, and would be happy to keep using them rather than switch...
Of course, switching is fun as well....
for cyburg needles notch filters
I ordered parts from Madisound
http://www.madisound.com/
Click on Online Ordering (left side of page)
On the Online Ordering page the parts can be found
under these headings -
Inductors > Madisound 20awg
(2) 0.56mH 20AWG Air Core Inductor
Resistors > Metal Oxide Film
(2) Eagle- 6.8ohms
Capacitors > Carli Mylar
(2) Carli Mylar 6.8 mfd
jb74
I ordered parts from Madisound
http://www.madisound.com/
Click on Online Ordering (left side of page)
On the Online Ordering page the parts can be found
under these headings -
Inductors > Madisound 20awg
(2) 0.56mH 20AWG Air Core Inductor
Resistors > Metal Oxide Film
(2) Eagle- 6.8ohms
Capacitors > Carli Mylar
(2) Carli Mylar 6.8 mfd
jb74
gychang - your process from here is straightforward. I'm sure you can manage. You know the part values you need, here are just a few tips to choose a product line that you like.
Inductors come in 3 flavors from parts express:
- air core (good)
- copper foil (better)
- iron core (worse)
I did notice a little odd bit about the parts express web page. If you search for 'inductor' and then choose 'air core inductor' and try to look at the Jantzen 18 gauge inductors the link takes you to the Jantzen 15 awg selection. Scroll down the page a bit to the 18awg. There is a .56mH value part there (this is what I used). Other coils come in .55mH - I may be wrong, but I think .55 is probably close enough.
Search for Capacitors and you'll have other lines to select from.
- Metallized Polypropylene (good)
- Film and foil (better)
- Electrolytic (worse)
(I used the basic Dayton Metallized Polypropylene)
Search for resistors and again choose a product line.
You don't want
- Dummy loads
- Dual emitters
- potentiometers
I think I chose the 10 watt wirewound. You could also go with 10watt non-inductive, I think. Either way, choose some with values that add up to 6.8 ohms and solder them end-to-end to add their values.
Now wire it all up and stick it in your speakers. Actually, I wired mine up in an external chassis (just a scrap of MDF) with extra binding posts on one end and wires coming out the other, so that I can put them in line with the speaker or leave them out as I desired. Currently I leave them out and run the convolution filter mentioned elsewhere in this thread. I wrote up a mini review of it uhh around p 24 of this thread I think. I've since modded up my t-amp and gotten a silverstone external USB DAC. I should re-compare the passive filter and the convolution filter, now that the rest of the system is a bit nicer...
Inductors come in 3 flavors from parts express:
- air core (good)
- copper foil (better)
- iron core (worse)
I did notice a little odd bit about the parts express web page. If you search for 'inductor' and then choose 'air core inductor' and try to look at the Jantzen 18 gauge inductors the link takes you to the Jantzen 15 awg selection. Scroll down the page a bit to the 18awg. There is a .56mH value part there (this is what I used). Other coils come in .55mH - I may be wrong, but I think .55 is probably close enough.
Search for Capacitors and you'll have other lines to select from.
- Metallized Polypropylene (good)
- Film and foil (better)
- Electrolytic (worse)
(I used the basic Dayton Metallized Polypropylene)
Search for resistors and again choose a product line.
You don't want
- Dummy loads
- Dual emitters
- potentiometers
I think I chose the 10 watt wirewound. You could also go with 10watt non-inductive, I think. Either way, choose some with values that add up to 6.8 ohms and solder them end-to-end to add their values.
Now wire it all up and stick it in your speakers. Actually, I wired mine up in an external chassis (just a scrap of MDF) with extra binding posts on one end and wires coming out the other, so that I can put them in line with the speaker or leave them out as I desired. Currently I leave them out and run the convolution filter mentioned elsewhere in this thread. I wrote up a mini review of it uhh around p 24 of this thread I think. I've since modded up my t-amp and gotten a silverstone external USB DAC. I should re-compare the passive filter and the convolution filter, now that the rest of the system is a bit nicer...
AdamThorne said:gychang - your process from here is straightforward. I'm sure you can manage. You know the part values you need, here are just a few tips to choose a product line that you like.
Inductors come in 3 flavors from parts express:
- air core (good)
- copper foil (better)
- iron core (worse)
Now wire it all up and stick it in your speakers. Actually, I wired mine up in an external chassis (just a scrap of MDF) with extra binding posts on one end and wires coming out the other, so that I can put them in line with the speaker or leave them out as I desired. Currently I leave them out and run the convolution filter mentioned elsewhere in this thread. I wrote up a mini review of it uhh around p 24 of this thread I think. I've since modded up my t-amp and gotten a silverstone external USB DAC. I should re-compare the passive filter and the convolution filter, now that the rest of the system is a bit nicer...
thanks for such a detailed instruction for this nonelectronic but into DIY speaker person. I appreciate it. I have ordered the parts.
gychang
AdamThorne said:Now wire it all up and stick it in your speakers. Actually, I wired mine up in an external chassis (just a scrap of MDF) with extra binding posts on one end and wires coming out the other, so that I can put them in line with the speaker or leave them out as I desired. Currently I leave them out and run the convolution filter mentioned elsewhere in this thread. I wrote up a mini review of it uhh around p 24 of this thread I think. I've since modded up my t-amp and gotten a silverstone external USB DAC. I should re-compare the passive filter and the convolution filter, now that the rest of the system is a bit nicer...
How it tickles my ego that someone is using the convolution stuff
-- and I'll be taking a page from your book and building my electronic notch as an external unitI'll be using a T-Amp. Well, Amp6, actually. My original interest in the convolution filter was not least due to reading somewhere that a passive notch will eat 1-2 amplifier watts - and how precious few watts the Tripaths put out. I'm curious - do you find that a T-Amp will drive Needles to bass-clipping with a passive notch?
I'm here to tell the world that the convolution filter is pretty sweet. Everyone should run it if they can.kristleifur, if I've stroked your ego enough to get you to do something, you should make a convolution sample that is notch + infrasonic. On some tracks I see my poor little cones jump around like crazy, but don't hear anything....
might as well save the power.Can I drive the needles to bass-clipping with the passive notch? Well, I haven't gone back to the passive recently... If I get around to doing more conv/passive comparisons I'll see how max volume compares. My current theory about the system is that the speakers run out of go before the t-amp does. I turn the system up little by little... and it never sounds like it's clipping, it doesn't pop or crackle, the cones don't bottom... but after a little bit I notice that my ears hurt - each leading transient is a little assault and then the listening session is over. The sound / sensation is a little like the cheapo computer speakers that got much better after I damped the basket. I assume some distortion measurement is punching up too high, but it's not the sort of thing I normally associate with "this has been turned up too loud".
Apart from that I still like the system quite a bit, and it'll still go loud enough that my wife yells at me. But maybe an infrasonic will give it just a bit more in the audible range. And they are very little drivers, after all. My room might just need something a little more capable spl-wise to really work me into a foot stomping, head banging, fist pumping frenzy.
AdamThorne: I'm on it
For the record, I've finally gotten one Needle up and running. Lovely speaker! Lovely lovely. My biggest question was whether they'd be loud enough for me, and yes: they are loud enough for me. The need to blow oneself out the door will surely arise at some point, but that's another day, and another set of speakers. There's a Viech on the horizon.
Beautiful speaker, thanks Cyburgs. Even a single Needle seems to do some imaging all by itself! Can't wait to get its sibling together.
For the record, I've finally gotten one Needle up and running. Lovely speaker! Lovely lovely. My biggest question was whether they'd be loud enough for me, and yes: they are loud enough for me. The need to blow oneself out the door will surely arise at some point, but that's another day, and another set of speakers. There's a Viech on the horizon.
Beautiful speaker, thanks Cyburgs. Even a single Needle seems to do some imaging all by itself! Can't wait to get its sibling together.
kristleifur convolution: cool.
Building Das Veich: Man, that seems like a neat speaker. But the driver doesn't seem to be available in the USA.
If any north americans have managed to build a pair without paying unreasonable prices for importing the driver (or a similar type of speaker) I'd love to hear about it. I'll have to go back to the Veich thread and see if there have been any developments...
Needles + T-amp running out of power: You know, now that I think about it, the t-amp gets to 6 or 8 watts and then THD starts rising sharply. I'll bet my louder listening sessions are when the amp starts to get up that THD climb a little, and that's the sound I'm hearing. Probably a clean 15 or 20 watts rather than 10% THD or more would get a bit more volume out of the speakers than I'm getting currently. Either way, some infrasonic blocking will probably get me a bit more volume.
Building Das Veich: Man, that seems like a neat speaker. But the driver doesn't seem to be available in the USA.
If any north americans have managed to build a pair without paying unreasonable prices for importing the driver (or a similar type of speaker) I'd love to hear about it. I'll have to go back to the Veich thread and see if there have been any developments...Needles + T-amp running out of power: You know, now that I think about it, the t-amp gets to 6 or 8 watts and then THD starts rising sharply. I'll bet my louder listening sessions are when the amp starts to get up that THD climb a little, and that's the sound I'm hearing. Probably a clean 15 or 20 watts rather than 10% THD or more would get a bit more volume out of the speakers than I'm getting currently. Either way, some infrasonic blocking will probably get me a bit more volume.
HELP with notch filter
I am in the process of building the needles, slow and steady look at the pic, have a problem, with installing the notch filter as recommended.
I can wire all the parts, Resistor, inductor, capacitor on the + side in series, sequentially? ( I will attach the picture on next message).
1. Does it matter which sequence?, R, inductor, cap, etc?
thanks,
gychang
I am in the process of building the needles, slow and steady look at the pic, have a problem, with installing the notch filter as recommended.
I can wire all the parts, Resistor, inductor, capacitor on the + side in series, sequentially? ( I will attach the picture on next message).
1. Does it matter which sequence?, R, inductor, cap, etc?
thanks,
gychang
Attachments
1st project...a success!
1st I would like to thank Cyberg for coming up with this design as it has rejuvenated my interest in audio which had become stale. Limited diy skills, and wanting a good match for my T-amps, both SI and Trend, the full range aspect of this seemed like a good start. I have to say this has got me hooked ! For the 1st time in 28 years I have found some speakers that actually sound great in my familly room which is an audio challenge (L-room shape and lots of furniture in the wrong places).
The Needles replaced Martin Logan electrostats with a power guzzling amp; these were the last speakers of many tried in this room. The stats had poor waf , and did not have enough room for correct placement. The Needles, conversely, have my wife a happy girl because of their size, and both of us happy because they really do sound wonderful.
Using the notch filter on these and no sub, a Jolida JD100 cdp, active pre-amp, the Trends T-amp as an amplifier, and cat-5 for wire. The pre I am using currently is an old analogue unit with eq controls built in (plans to upgrade as I learn more diy skills); I mostly use it flat however have been experimenting with judicious amounts of eq (depending on source and music).
Others who have visited and heard these speakers are equally amazed and think I am some kind of genius ...well I let them think what they want .
Just completed a pair of TABAQ's (slightly modded from original) with the Tangband W3 315D driver and plan on doing some comparisons when they drivers have some time on them. Early listening indicates another winner.
Needles in raw mdf, with plans to veneer, and pretty them up.
1st I would like to thank Cyberg for coming up with this design as it has rejuvenated my interest in audio which had become stale. Limited diy skills, and wanting a good match for my T-amps, both SI and Trend, the full range aspect of this seemed like a good start. I have to say this has got me hooked
! For the 1st time in 28 years I have found some speakers that actually sound great in my familly room which is an audio challenge (L-room shape and lots of furniture in the wrong places).The Needles replaced Martin Logan electrostats with a power guzzling amp; these were the last speakers of many tried in this room. The stats had poor waf
, and did not have enough room for correct placement. The Needles, conversely, have my wife a happy girl because of their size, and both of us happy because they really do sound wonderful. Using the notch filter on these and no sub, a Jolida JD100 cdp, active pre-amp, the Trends T-amp as an amplifier, and cat-5 for wire. The pre I am using currently is an old analogue unit with eq controls built in (plans to upgrade as I learn more diy skills); I mostly use it flat however have been experimenting with judicious amounts of eq (depending on source and music).
Others who have visited and heard these speakers are equally amazed and think I am some kind of genius
...well I let them think what they want .Just completed a pair of TABAQ's (slightly modded from original) with the Tangband W3 315D driver and plan on doing some comparisons when they drivers have some time on them. Early listening indicates another winner.
Needles in raw mdf, with plans to veneer, and pretty them up.
Attachments
