Aurasound NS3-194-8E
has anyone tried this driver in a Needle? what adjustments would be necessary to make it work. I have been playing with different sealed designs and havent gotten the sound i want. see thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90151 thanks for any help
has anyone tried this driver in a Needle? what adjustments would be necessary to make it work. I have been playing with different sealed designs and havent gotten the sound i want. see thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90151 thanks for any help
thanks for your router / dremel-router thoughts. =)
My needles are coming along. I am in the glue a joint then wait..... glue another joint then wait....... stage. Soon I'll be trying to judge the amount of stuffing to put in. I figure it's stuff, clamp a side, then listen. When it sounds good you got it right. Does anyone have any tips on most quickly getting the stuffing set up? How does one secure the stuffing inside the speaker so it doesn't float all around?
Here's my next question: Has anyone thought of making an active filter for the tang band driver? In a multi-way an active driver means multiple amps and some difficulty along these lines. But with a single driver and such a simple filter it seems it would be easy, economical, and would address the desire to go completely filterless between the driver and the amp.
Not that I'd know exactly how to execute it, at this point... but the whole objective is to learn some stuff, so I bet I can track down some info about doing it... I'm starting with the passive notch filter, in an external chassis.
My needles are coming along. I am in the glue a joint then wait..... glue another joint then wait....... stage. Soon I'll be trying to judge the amount of stuffing to put in. I figure it's stuff, clamp a side, then listen. When it sounds good you got it right. Does anyone have any tips on most quickly getting the stuffing set up? How does one secure the stuffing inside the speaker so it doesn't float all around?
Here's my next question: Has anyone thought of making an active filter for the tang band driver? In a multi-way an active driver means multiple amps and some difficulty along these lines. But with a single driver and such a simple filter it seems it would be easy, economical, and would address the desire to go completely filterless between the driver and the amp.
Not that I'd know exactly how to execute it, at this point... but the whole objective is to learn some stuff, so I bet I can track down some info about doing it... I'm starting with the passive notch filter, in an external chassis.
Stuffing Needles
Hi Adam
Haven't quite got to the stuffing stage yet, but I started looking at pillows today for a cheap source of (Dacron Polyfil) stuffing.
I did see that you thought you would stuff the Needles, clamp a side and listen. I decided to glue both sides on, and I have screwed the tops on instead, so I can get access to the stuffing, and ram it tighter at the bottom as Cyburgs recommended.
FWIW I also screwed the bottoms on because I'm not convinced Cyburgs dimensions as drawn are large enough for stability in public. If they are too small I can then easily replace them with something larger.
Mark
Hi Adam
Haven't quite got to the stuffing stage yet, but I started looking at pillows today for a cheap source of (Dacron Polyfil) stuffing.
I did see that you thought you would stuff the Needles, clamp a side and listen. I decided to glue both sides on, and I have screwed the tops on instead, so I can get access to the stuffing, and ram it tighter at the bottom as Cyburgs recommended.
FWIW I also screwed the bottoms on because I'm not convinced Cyburgs dimensions as drawn are large enough for stability in public. If they are too small I can then easily replace them with something larger.
Mark
AdamThorne said:
I've been thinking of it, yes
I don't know much about filters, but I assume that the filter's effect is based on the resistor, cap and inductor in the filter itself, and then the impedance of the speaker. Could somebody clarify what effect the speaker's impedance has on the filter value? I assume that the speaker's variable impedance across the frequency range has some effect, rather than the 8-ohm overall nominal impedance.
In short: What's are the notch filter's parameters (slope, cutoff, etc.) in the frequency domain? Knowing that, some filter experiments could be performed in software.
Well I've got my needles running. I still have to finish/paint them, so no pics yet. I converted to inches, used 3/4" MDF and whoopsed an extra 1/4 inch into the width of them, so they have a larger appearance than many of the pictures I've seen.
I am very pleased with them! The low end is quite amazing. You must refrain from attempting to power your dance party with them, but for a person sitting and listening they go quite loud enough.
I've read many descriptions of the bass that sound pleased, but not overenthusiastic. This must originate from a juxtaposition of two factors:
a) the bass is fantastic
b) you can't play it super loud
Item 'a' justifies enthusiasm, 'b' moderates it. I don't want anyone who hasn't yet built these to misunderstand that the low freq performance is merely acceptable. Until you hit the power handling limit of the setup the bottom end is super super sweet. Tuneful, though not super tight in my setup. Low frequency material with high frequency overtones (e.g. synthetic sq. waves) sound sharp, fast and integrated like they never have from multi-driver speakers I've heard. The spl limit keeps more people from voicing stronger enthusiasm, I think.
Note: They are playing in a house w/ hardwood floors, and I think they may be hitting a room resonance near the bottom. They're currently being driven by an old radio shack mini-integrated until my backordered t-amp finally comes through.
SO. I've been inviting friends over to check them out and now a number of people want me to help them build some. No problem, as long as someone else is writing the check! =) But, of course, I'm thinking about variations.
Specifically I'm thinking about sticking that Hi-Vi driver in 'em (pending agreement from the interested party). Uh, if I remember correctly from the pages on this thread there has been talk, but has anyone actually done this yet? Anyone have anything to share before we start ordering parts? I look forward to being able to post a direct comparison of the Needles with these two drivers.
Also, the filter. As yet I have not the experience to design one, nor have I the spare parts to make lots of test filters. I was figuring I'd implement the filter from the ZaphAudio B3S project. Does this sound reasonable? It looks like Zaph implements BSC (with L1, R2 - or am I wrong?), while the Needle does not? Can anyone comment on these two different choices?
Also, I might end up facilitating the construction of a pair of "Sticks" with the TB 4" Bamboo driver, depending on what my friends decide they want to make. That also sounds like fun!
I am very pleased with them! The low end is quite amazing. You must refrain from attempting to power your dance party with them, but for a person sitting and listening they go quite loud enough.
I've read many descriptions of the bass that sound pleased, but not overenthusiastic. This must originate from a juxtaposition of two factors:
a) the bass is fantastic
b) you can't play it super loud
Item 'a' justifies enthusiasm, 'b' moderates it. I don't want anyone who hasn't yet built these to misunderstand that the low freq performance is merely acceptable. Until you hit the power handling limit of the setup the bottom end is super super sweet. Tuneful, though not super tight in my setup. Low frequency material with high frequency overtones (e.g. synthetic sq. waves) sound sharp, fast and integrated like they never have from multi-driver speakers I've heard. The spl limit keeps more people from voicing stronger enthusiasm, I think.
Note: They are playing in a house w/ hardwood floors, and I think they may be hitting a room resonance near the bottom. They're currently being driven by an old radio shack mini-integrated until my backordered t-amp finally comes through.
SO. I've been inviting friends over to check them out and now a number of people want me to help them build some. No problem, as long as someone else is writing the check! =) But, of course, I'm thinking about variations.
Specifically I'm thinking about sticking that Hi-Vi driver in 'em (pending agreement from the interested party). Uh, if I remember correctly from the pages on this thread there has been talk, but has anyone actually done this yet? Anyone have anything to share before we start ordering parts? I look forward to being able to post a direct comparison of the Needles with these two drivers.
Also, the filter. As yet I have not the experience to design one, nor have I the spare parts to make lots of test filters. I was figuring I'd implement the filter from the ZaphAudio B3S project. Does this sound reasonable? It looks like Zaph implements BSC (with L1, R2 - or am I wrong?), while the Needle does not? Can anyone comment on these two different choices?
Also, I might end up facilitating the construction of a pair of "Sticks" with the TB 4" Bamboo driver, depending on what my friends decide they want to make. That also sounds like fun!
Dear Adam,
thank you for the review, I am very glad to hear that you like them.
I like especially your description of the bass reproduction, because In my opinion it hits the point. Sometimes people write that the bass reproduction can not be good because the driver is too small. They are right and wrong at the same time. Bass is good, when it fits tonally to the Hights and Mids, in that sense the bass of the Needle is very good. Bass is good when it blows out your window, in that sense the bass of the Needle sucks.
Unfortunately I have no experience with the HiVi driver in the Needle, so I can not give any recommendations. I didn't implement a baffle step compensation, just because the Needle doesn't need one. The bass and lower mids are strong enough to compensate the baffle step by themselves in normal listening room application.
Nice greetings, Berndt
thank you for the review, I am very glad to hear that you like them.
I like especially your description of the bass reproduction, because In my opinion it hits the point. Sometimes people write that the bass reproduction can not be good because the driver is too small. They are right and wrong at the same time. Bass is good, when it fits tonally to the Hights and Mids, in that sense the bass of the Needle is very good. Bass is good when it blows out your window, in that sense the bass of the Needle sucks.
Unfortunately I have no experience with the HiVi driver in the Needle, so I can not give any recommendations. I didn't implement a baffle step compensation, just because the Needle doesn't need one. The bass and lower mids are strong enough to compensate the baffle step by themselves in normal listening room application.
Nice greetings, Berndt
AdamThorne said:
I'd say go for it. Get the Hi-Vi B3s and try it. I have both the B3S and the W3-871s and IMO they're close but the B3s is the better driver. The highs of the TB are a tiny bit better, as in, they're a little bit airier but the overall balance and the fact that the B3S has usable bass makes it the better of the two IMHO. I've been thinking of building a pair of needles for quite some time and now I think I have to.
Behind the baffle
My Needles were constructed according to the posted
plans except that the W3-871S were mounted behind
the baffle.
I can't say what effect this might have on the sound,
however, I am very pleased with the project. As others
have said, the bass from this design is impressive
considering the size and cost of these little speakers.
Shown with a coat of white primer in the photos
My Needles were constructed according to the posted
plans except that the W3-871S were mounted behind
the baffle.
I can't say what effect this might have on the sound,
however, I am very pleased with the project. As others
have said, the bass from this design is impressive
considering the size and cost of these little speakers.
Shown with a coat of white primer in the photos
Attachments
I’ve previously posted pics of my Needles, however I'm planning to build a set of Frugels over Xmas (if it doesn’t get too hot in the shed). So I bought in my Fostex FE126e’s in their official BLH/BR box from the shed – classy music while building more classy speakers. I’m running out of space in the office/2nd listing room so Needles have gone into shed – temporarily.
Thats a pair of RAW HT8's I'm building for a commission in the lower part of pic 2
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thats a pair of RAW HT8's I'm building for a commission in the lower part of pic 2
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Metal Plate
Thanks, Svein_B -
The metal plate is 4" x 5" aluminum, 1/16" thick. It covers an opening cut in the cabinet back for access to the speaker and the assembly that presses against the rear of the speaker to hold it in place.
One of each of the two assemblies in this attached photo fits just inside the opening in the back of each speaker.
A threaded rod is used to apply pressure between the
inside of the back of the cabinet via the threaded insert assembly and a rubber pad on the back
of each speaker.
The speaker and all parts holding it in place can be
removed/inserted/adjusted for pressure after the cabinet is finished.
I saw speakers mounted from the rear first, I think, on S Linkwitz site - although not done in this way.
Thanks, Svein_B -
The metal plate is 4" x 5" aluminum, 1/16" thick. It covers an opening cut in the cabinet back for access to the speaker and the assembly that presses against the rear of the speaker to hold it in place.
One of each of the two assemblies in this attached photo fits just inside the opening in the back of each speaker.
A threaded rod is used to apply pressure between the
inside of the back of the cabinet via the threaded insert assembly and a rubber pad on the back
of each speaker.
The speaker and all parts holding it in place can be
removed/inserted/adjusted for pressure after the cabinet is finished.
I saw speakers mounted from the rear first, I think, on S Linkwitz site - although not done in this way.
Attachments
A question for those who have built this speaker. What made you decide to go with this design as compared to a larger 4-8" driver? Obviously the larger driver will go deeper and play louder. What are your listening impressions of the NEedles compared to commercial speakers like JM Labs, B&W etc?
I've been experimenting with Tang-Band's 4" 616 and 654 paper drivers and the poly cone W5-704. The 616 and 704 had harsh breakups which hurt my ears. The 654 is okay but sounds flat with bad attack on the leading edge of notes, cone vibrations/breakups marr delineation between notes. The decay graph is not very clean with resonances out beyond 3-4ms as compared to the 871's 1-1.5 ms. Maybe the poorer BL : Mmass ratio is also a cause.
My 2 liter W3-871s sound more delicate, crisp, and interesting so this design is obviously very interesting.
Will bass lag behind because of the TL. The "Limes" design elsewhere in this thread mentioned this.
Can this 80dB speaker run on my 22wpc Denon mini-system?
Should I just go commercial and get an older EPOS M15 or ES-11?
Role Audio has gotton on the Needles bandwagon as well and got a good review here:
Role Audio Sampan with T-B 1231 titanium driver
I've been experimenting with Tang-Band's 4" 616 and 654 paper drivers and the poly cone W5-704. The 616 and 704 had harsh breakups which hurt my ears. The 654 is okay but sounds flat with bad attack on the leading edge of notes, cone vibrations/breakups marr delineation between notes. The decay graph is not very clean with resonances out beyond 3-4ms as compared to the 871's 1-1.5 ms. Maybe the poorer BL : Mmass ratio is also a cause.
My 2 liter W3-871s sound more delicate, crisp, and interesting so this design is obviously very interesting.
Will bass lag behind because of the TL. The "Limes" design elsewhere in this thread mentioned this.
Can this 80dB speaker run on my 22wpc Denon mini-system?
Should I just go commercial and get an older EPOS M15 or ES-11?
Role Audio has gotton on the Needles bandwagon as well and got a good review here:
Role Audio Sampan with T-B 1231 titanium driver
Hi chuck55, if you already have the drivers, what are you waiting for?
You will already know that the drivers are smooth sounding (at least with a notch-filter), but they will not be suitable for a dance party (unless it is a ultra cultivated one).
Compared to a small box, the needle will give excellent tuneful LF, without boom or "overhang" - at least in a not so big room.
The TABAQ MLTL looks even better than the needle on simulation, but I have not listened to it.
I believe the Lancetta may be the ultimate enclosure for the W3-871s, but a more challenging build.
Compared to ready-made speakers, nothing to be ashamed off! Especially knowing that equivalent "retail value" may touch $2K
SveinB.
You will already know that the drivers are smooth sounding (at least with a notch-filter), but they will not be suitable for a dance party (unless it is a ultra cultivated one).
Compared to a small box, the needle will give excellent tuneful LF, without boom or "overhang" - at least in a not so big room.
The TABAQ MLTL looks even better than the needle on simulation, but I have not listened to it.
I believe the Lancetta may be the ultimate enclosure for the W3-871s, but a more challenging build.
Compared to ready-made speakers, nothing to be ashamed off! Especially knowing that equivalent "retail value" may touch $2K
SveinB.
