Stick with Berts' choice !
I have made a quick check with those drivers and the reduced size according to your needs. The best choice seems to be FE207 E. I suspect it may need to be placed closer to the corner more then other options. Having said this, I have to say that it is not so simple with the Helmholtz resonator. You will have to cut out a large hole as given on Berts' page and tune it with your ear by reducing the size.
-Onur
hkoetz said:
I have made a quick check with those drivers and the reduced size according to your needs. The best choice seems to be FE207 E. I suspect it may need to be placed closer to the corner more then other options. Having said this, I have to say that it is not so simple with the Helmholtz resonator. You will have to cut out a large hole as given on Berts' page and tune it with your ear by reducing the size.
-Onur
This is what you may get with this enclosure
I must say that you will need a little damping in the rear chamber and in the line as well, but the narrow section at the bottom can easiliy be filled with fiber, therefore you have to be careful not to cover the entire cross-section.
- Onur
I must say that you will need a little damping in the rear chamber and in the line as well, but the narrow section at the bottom can easiliy be filled with fiber, therefore you have to be careful not to cover the entire cross-section.
- Onur
Attachments
Thanks Onur
I always use damping behind the speakers
for reducing backlash
I am still working on this model..
I would like to increase the height to 1000 mm
the first section should be 150 mm
The narrow section at bottom
should be 125 mm
Doe we need refelectors in a tl ??
What program did you use for the simulations..
greatings Weidok
I always use damping behind the speakers
for reducing backlash
I am still working on this model..
I would like to increase the height to 1000 mm
the first section should be 150 mm
The narrow section at bottom
should be 125 mm
Doe we need refelectors in a tl ??
What program did you use for the simulations..
greatings Weidok
weidok said:
Then you are building a TL with a "tapper ratio"<1. I must say that I am not good with TL mathematics but as far as my real life experiences are concerned this will increase the cone amplitude. If my memory doesn't fail me, I remember that your driver has a 1.5 mm Xmax. This will cause the doppler effect to be audiable even at low volumes. Another point I have to mention about your design is, avoid sudden cross-section area changes and try to keep the corss-section area the same, this will reduce the reflected waves.
As for the reflectors, the bends must be as smooth as possibe. As I always say, there is certain amount of energy reflected from the bends in a TL enclosure. In order to minimize that reflected energy and control the distorsion you have to make use of the reflectors.
weidok said:
I am registered user of AJ Horn and SoundEasy. I prefer AJ horn for its' speed. On the other hand, you can see how the enclosure will perform when it is located at different places in your room, like besides a wall or at the corner. One other good feaute is, it lets' you examine the frequency response when you place the port at the back or on any parallel surface which has a offset from the speaker. This feature is very important since it lets you to control the peaks or dips in the low-midrange and upper-bass sections. AJ Horn also gives very close results to real life measurements but you have to know which real dimensions to apply as simulation parameters. It is not stated clearly inside the manual.
- Onur
01.jpg is the response of your final enclosure. I have also played on my design, which I have worked on before, and came up with 02.jpg (black: corner, red: floor positioning; you should be comparing your response with red).
As for the difference between them, line is shorter, the port at the back is little far away from the speaker plane, the rear chamber volume is bigger and so is the cross-sectional area. What this tells me is that this driver unit would be very happy to work in a larger enclosure because it needs the port to be at the back like 40 - 50 cm, also ~20 liters of rear chamber and larger cross-section demands such size.
As for the difference between them, line is shorter, the port at the back is little far away from the speaker plane, the rear chamber volume is bigger and so is the cross-sectional area. What this tells me is that this driver unit would be very happy to work in a larger enclosure because it needs the port to be at the back like 40 - 50 cm, also ~20 liters of rear chamber and larger cross-section demands such size.
Attachments
weidok said:
You don't have to look for huge differences when you are examining frequency response of an enclosure. It is the minor ones which do the trick. Also, don't judge the speaker by looking at the frequency response, there are also waterfall resonse, transient response, harmonic distorsions and so on. I personally examine the frequency response for to get closer to a flat response and try to see if I expand my limits to the fullest. When it comes to sound quality, I know that I have to build the design. I have been dealing with full-range speaker enclosures for 5 years now and finnally could be able to come up with Singular
And I have to say that anyone who is looking at the matter as a hobby should take advise from the experienced ones !weidok said:
It is the distance from the plane, where your speaker is mounted on, to the plane where your port is. In your case the distance between the front of your speaker to the rear. (boradly speaking 350, but in real life, it is not the case)
weidok said:
It is like playing with an equalizer, you make the frequency response look good, but ruin the phase response. I don't like to play much with resonators for this reason. Also, if you place more then one resonators in an enclosure then you have to deal with their pass-band responses, which in many cases can do no good. I try to keep it as simple as possible. But, no, I haven't used 2 resonators in single enclosure.
- Onur
This is why you will like FULLRANGE
Once you experience the full range driver you will never go back to crossovers and multi-way speakers.
Some magazine did a spectrum analysis of a piece of music many years ago and something like 85% of it is in the mid range...that being from 250 - 2K.....so unless we can get this right then what on earth is the point of extended top or pant flapping bass? The mids are the essential and crutial part of what we hear and also the area where we are most sensitive. No wonder those multiway units that has a crossover right in the middle of that range seldom sound good.
Once you experience the full range driver you will never go back to crossovers and multi-way speakers.
Some magazine did a spectrum analysis of a piece of music many years ago and something like 85% of it is in the mid range...that being from 250 - 2K.....so unless we can get this right then what on earth is the point of extended top or pant flapping bass? The mids are the essential and crutial part of what we hear and also the area where we are most sensitive. No wonder those multiway units that has a crossover right in the middle of that range seldom sound good.
weidok said:
When it comes to resonator, SoundEasy steps in the scene. Since this is not an ordinary design, it is ver normal for simulation software not to simulate resonators. Therefore, you build the eletro-acoustic model of the resonator with SoundEasy and combine the response with the one you get from AJ-Horn. As a result, you receive the final frequency response of the enclosure.
- Onur
Hello Onur
I am waiting delivery of Fostex FE206E and i am wondering what type of enclosure to build. Searching the net i found these boxes: Singular enclosure, Folded TQWT or Fostex recommended Back Loaded Horn. The problem is my room, people build BLH says that the best bass is when put horns in the corner, but i can place speakers in middle of the wall.
My room is 5.8m/ 3.5m and the speakers have to be on the long wall and away from corners.
Could you share your experience with Singular enclosure, what is best position for them, what is the best distance from the rear wall ...
Sorry for my english.
Angel
I am waiting delivery of Fostex FE206E and i am wondering what type of enclosure to build. Searching the net i found these boxes: Singular enclosure, Folded TQWT or Fostex recommended Back Loaded Horn. The problem is my room, people build BLH says that the best bass is when put horns in the corner, but i can place speakers in middle of the wall.
My room is 5.8m/ 3.5m and the speakers have to be on the long wall and away from corners.
Could you share your experience with Singular enclosure, what is best position for them, what is the best distance from the rear wall ...
Sorry for my english.
Angel
As it is the case with almost all speaker enclosures, when placed at the corners, their bass response differs from other locations. I can not comment weather it improves or not, but in some cases, it does. Your room dimensions are very much alike with my room dimensions. I am using the room lengthwise and right now, the enclosures are sitting 5 cm away from the side walls and 20 cm from the rear wall. My listening position is behind the 1/3 of the longer distance from the rear wall. I have made some modifications inside the enclosures as Bert suggested and they are playing very balanced and detailed according to my taste.
I have also tried the other way, like you have said. The bass was much more then I could have imagined. I can say that they had a better bass response when they are placed at the far corners, but again they would like to be placed closer to the corners as possible. It is hard to guess what may happen when you pull them out, since I don't know how far.
As for the other enclosures, while working on Singular, I have tried many alternatives. I have built some of them also. They all had ups and downs, but Singular has more "ups" according to my simulations. The setback is, I haven't listened to other enclosures. I have listened to enclosures that I have built with similar principles. Having said this, I have to say that, I haven't head the bass performance of Singular in neather of them.
- Onur
I have also tried the other way, like you have said. The bass was much more then I could have imagined. I can say that they had a better bass response when they are placed at the far corners, but again they would like to be placed closer to the corners as possible. It is hard to guess what may happen when you pull them out, since I don't know how far.
As for the other enclosures, while working on Singular, I have tried many alternatives. I have built some of them also. They all had ups and downs, but Singular has more "ups" according to my simulations. The setback is, I haven't listened to other enclosures. I have listened to enclosures that I have built with similar principles. Having said this, I have to say that, I haven't head the bass performance of Singular in neather of them.
- Onur
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