Ohh look I found another YT vid on my site.
This was before I bought the
Tang band2145
and DavidLouis VX8.
This was my very 1st high quality WBer,..
I know what I heard and i loved it.
Its about 95% of what the TB2145 and DLVX8 in performance.
Bass 9, mids 9, highs 9.
At 200 best bang.
Tang Band 10 bass, 9.5 mids, highs 10, @ $250.
So not sure why you would buy my DL yellow 6er.
DAVIDLOUIS 6.5 HIGH FIDELITY WIDE BAND WOWWW - YouTube
This was before I bought the
Tang band2145
and DavidLouis VX8.
This was my very 1st high quality WBer,..
I know what I heard and i loved it.
Its about 95% of what the TB2145 and DLVX8 in performance.
Bass 9, mids 9, highs 9.
At 200 best bang.
Tang Band 10 bass, 9.5 mids, highs 10, @ $250.
So not sure why you would buy my DL yellow 6er.
DAVIDLOUIS 6.5 HIGH FIDELITY WIDE BAND WOWWW - YouTube
What's to translate? I mean as W.E., RCA and many other pioneers proved that a 'wide/full-range' driver ideally needs to be a three way with mechanical [AKA acoustical] XOs, i.e. it has a woofer [[mid] bass], whizzer [mids], dust cap [tweeter] with the glue joints acting as the decoupling/isolating XOs.
A true 'wide/full-range' driver needs to somehow do it all with a single diaphragm.
A true 'wide/full-range' driver needs to somehow do it all with a single diaphragm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Purists, believe 20hz is a must, and above 15khz is a must, to qualify as real, bonifide FULL RANE (20hz-20khz
I hold no such doctrine.
Cellos lowest 60hz, actually 65hz
Violins,,say maybe 3khz.
My tech says we employ a tweet for sheeen in the above say 10khz.
for me, 40hz is FULL COMPLETE Bottom
and 12khz, is top end,
above 12k, is all bi=onus for classaicla music.
For jazz music, yeah this group loves sizzle and sparkle in the above 15khz.
and they want(demand) to get as close to 20hz as possible. So they buy into these big box speakers and we all know what they really sound like,,,,
Not interested.
I 'm a midrange guy,
Mids are EVERYTHING for me./ WBers are King of midrange.
xover types are losers in midrange. especailly with their inherent low sensitivity
Double handicaps= Losers,
'Only good as assists.
WBers are Front Center. in a true high fidelity speaker.
I'm only WBer now,
My Seas Thors was all shot up in the shootout at the OK Corral.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Purists, believe 20hz is a must, and above 15khz is a must, to qualify as real, bonifide FULL RANE (20hz-20khz
I hold no such doctrine.
Cellos lowest 60hz, actually 65hz
Violins,,say maybe 3khz.
My tech says we employ a tweet for sheeen in the above say 10khz.
for me, 40hz is FULL COMPLETE Bottom
and 12khz, is top end,
above 12k, is all bi=onus for classaicla music.
For jazz music, yeah this group loves sizzle and sparkle in the above 15khz.
and they want(demand) to get as close to 20hz as possible. So they buy into these big box speakers and we all know what they really sound like,,,,
Not interested.
I 'm a midrange guy,
Mids are EVERYTHING for me./ WBers are King of midrange.
xover types are losers in midrange. especailly with their inherent low sensitivity
Double handicaps= Losers,
'Only good as assists.
WBers are Front Center. in a true high fidelity speaker.
I'm only WBer now,
My Seas Thors was all shot up in the shootout at the OK Corral.
My statement stands, your favored 'FR' driver is technically a three way with XOs [AKA triax], so technically neither a 'full-range' nor 'wide-band' single driver regardless of how it's marketed.
BTW, pretty sure all of this forum's members are basically mid-range centric, so 'preaching to the choir'.
For future reference/clarities sake so we're all on the same 'page', recommend we use these active musical instrument BWs, human hearing perception charts:
Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network
Interactive Ear Sensitivity Chart - Independent Recording Network
There are thousands of high sensitivity multiway loudspeakers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sure I am making generalizations.
But I am trying to place 2 camps,
Speakers that take xover and have sens no kore than 90db, IF THAT..a nd
WBer camp
with sens
at least 92db+.
I've4 found smaller cone WBers 4,6 inchers to be 90/91 db and mids are not as clear, clean and fidelity as the 2 8's mentioned in this topic.
Is my point.
The purpose of this topic is to show my opinions of these 2 WBers vs the commercial loud speakers, in midrange.
Bass/highs are another amtter.
Though both responded quite well in bass and highs.
Especially now that I borrowed my friends 250 tube SET amp.
NOw I can use the linestage vol pot all I care to, 12 oclock is OK.
a PP amp will work, but with limitations on preamps vol gain.
SETs are IDEAL for high(92+) db WBers,
and if the WB is say 94++ db, SET's are the ONLY amp that will work out
I do not like xoverspeakers in midarnge.
But yes I understand my 3 ways, are not true stand alone WBers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sure I am making generalizations.
But I am trying to place 2 camps,
Speakers that take xover and have sens no kore than 90db, IF THAT..a nd
WBer camp
with sens
at least 92db+.
I've4 found smaller cone WBers 4,6 inchers to be 90/91 db and mids are not as clear, clean and fidelity as the 2 8's mentioned in this topic.
Is my point.
The purpose of this topic is to show my opinions of these 2 WBers vs the commercial loud speakers, in midrange.
Bass/highs are another amtter.
Though both responded quite well in bass and highs.
Especially now that I borrowed my friends 250 tube SET amp.
NOw I can use the linestage vol pot all I care to, 12 oclock is OK.
a PP amp will work, but with limitations on preamps vol gain.
SETs are IDEAL for high(92+) db WBers,
and if the WB is say 94++ db, SET's are the ONLY amp that will work out
I do not like xoverspeakers in midarnge.
But yes I understand my 3 ways, are not true stand alone WBers.
My statement stands, your favored 'FR' driver is technically a three way with XOs [AKA triax], so technically neither a 'full-range' nor 'wide-band' single driver regardless of how it's marketed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes I agree.
My set up is actuallya 3 way.
I have to use the Thors W18's as I;'ve got money invested in the new xovers, and with magnesium cones, the bass is nice and soft, recessed, perfected fora meshing witha WBer's bass.
Highs < have a paper tweeter, about to add a Be tweeter.
Thanks for the 2 graphs.
I've seen the instrument graph before, but the one you posted in much braoder and accurate.
I had no idea some classical instruments go above 5khz.
I thought violins at 3k hz was tops out.
I will dow load that chart...
The 2nd is abi above my understanding,,I'll look at it.
My tech mention a tweets 12k++ hz 's are really only for **ambience* , = sparkles, sheen.
Glad tp meet other WBers who know these magical speakers are kings in midrange, where 90% of our music is voicing.
My 1st exp witha WBer was like 1.5 yrs ago,
I was blown away.
WOW.
These speakers receive no attention over at audiogon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes I agree.
My set up is actuallya 3 way.
I have to use the Thors W18's as I;'ve got money invested in the new xovers, and with magnesium cones, the bass is nice and soft, recessed, perfected fora meshing witha WBer's bass.
Highs < have a paper tweeter, about to add a Be tweeter.
Thanks for the 2 graphs.
I've seen the instrument graph before, but the one you posted in much braoder and accurate.
I had no idea some classical instruments go above 5khz.
I thought violins at 3k hz was tops out.
I will dow load that chart...
The 2nd is abi above my understanding,,I'll look at it.
My tech mention a tweets 12k++ hz 's are really only for **ambience* , = sparkles, sheen.
Glad tp meet other WBers who know these magical speakers are kings in midrange, where 90% of our music is voicing.
My 1st exp witha WBer was like 1.5 yrs ago,
I was blown away.
WOW.
These speakers receive no attention over at audiogon.
OK
SET amp 250 tube with pure COLBALT out put transformrs,
6 watts, wayyyyy more than i need for the DaviDlouis VX8.
Really all we need are 1 watt SET's.
maybe its these pure colbalt trans that are pumping out gobs of power.
Not sure, have to ask my tech who designs these 250 tube amps, and sells them as well.
Honestly I am getting at 9 oclock on the Jadis linestage on certain cds, same exact SPL as the Defy 100 watt output.
Honestly we only need 1 watt with 92db sens WBers,, Think about some of AER and Voxativ at 94, 96, 100!!!! db sens.
1 watt is the best amp for pure musical fidelity
Tell ya what, 4-6 would be ok as well.
Some here like loud SPL, so more than 1 watt is needed.
I listen low vol, near field, 1 watt would be ideal.
6 watt SET 250 tube pure COLBALT Output trans + Wide Band - YouTube
SET amp 250 tube with pure COLBALT out put transformrs,
6 watts, wayyyyy more than i need for the DaviDlouis VX8.
Really all we need are 1 watt SET's.
maybe its these pure colbalt trans that are pumping out gobs of power.
Not sure, have to ask my tech who designs these 250 tube amps, and sells them as well.
Honestly I am getting at 9 oclock on the Jadis linestage on certain cds, same exact SPL as the Defy 100 watt output.
Honestly we only need 1 watt with 92db sens WBers,, Think about some of AER and Voxativ at 94, 96, 100!!!! db sens.
1 watt is the best amp for pure musical fidelity
Tell ya what, 4-6 would be ok as well.
Some here like loud SPL, so more than 1 watt is needed.
I listen low vol, near field, 1 watt would be ideal.
6 watt SET 250 tube pure COLBALT Output trans + Wide Band - YouTube
2 would imply black & white. But there is a full spectrum of colours in loudspeakers.
dave
I'm glad we have another who will carry the 2145 flag.
In my limited experience, it is very good, then even better including the price (to me).
I'd like to see a big 3.5ft3 ported with baffle step, or a transmission line to stomp on excursion.
I like that it doesn't need much eq for the price.
My current 2-way jbls are spec'd at 95db 1w/1m, and cerwin dx9's i had spec'd at 100db (4ohm).
And i loved some 83db electrostats so long as i didn't want louder than 100db.
I think you may be sensitive (or care about) phase (not that a full range driver is flat either).
Point source rings many people's bells also.
And the "double whizzer" 250tc was great, so long as you eq'd the mid peak down and listened off axis so you had a large listening area...........
Still no bass 8' away for my needs.
And that's ok, i now change between multiple speakers depending on my mood or time of day.
Even here, i am sure we have an "anti-whizzer" crowd, but it seems inevitable for a larger driver.
Did the l"cao not sound good ?
Others of us need cone size and thusly trade detail for it.
I remember a favorable review of the audio nirvana classic (no whizzer 8").
In my limited experience, it is very good, then even better including the price (to me).
I'd like to see a big 3.5ft3 ported with baffle step, or a transmission line to stomp on excursion.
I like that it doesn't need much eq for the price.
My current 2-way jbls are spec'd at 95db 1w/1m, and cerwin dx9's i had spec'd at 100db (4ohm).
And i loved some 83db electrostats so long as i didn't want louder than 100db.
I think you may be sensitive (or care about) phase (not that a full range driver is flat either).
Point source rings many people's bells also.
And the "double whizzer" 250tc was great, so long as you eq'd the mid peak down and listened off axis so you had a large listening area...........
Still no bass 8' away for my needs.
And that's ok, i now change between multiple speakers depending on my mood or time of day.
Even here, i am sure we have an "anti-whizzer" crowd, but it seems inevitable for a larger driver.
Did the l"cao not sound good ?
Others of us need cone size and thusly trade detail for it.
I remember a favorable review of the audio nirvana classic (no whizzer 8").
Last edited:
I'm glad we have another who will carry the 2145 flag.
In my limited experience, it is very good, then even better including the price (to me).
I'd like to see a big 3.5ft3 ported with baffle step, or a transmission line to stomp on excursion.
I like that it doesn't need much eq for the price.
My current 2-way jbls are spec'd at 95db 1w/1m, and cerwin dx9's i had spec'd at 100db (4ohm).
And i loved some 83db electrostats so long as i didn't want louder than 100db.
I think you may be sensitive (or care about) phase (not that a full range driver is flat either).
Point source rings many people's bells also.
And the "double whizzer" 250tc was great, so long as you eq'd the mid peak down and listened off axis so you had a large listening area...........
Still no bass 8' away for my needs.
And that's ok, i now change between multiple speakers depending on my mood or time of day.
Even here, i am sure we have an "anti-whizzer" crowd, but it seems inevitable for a larger driver.
Did the l"cao not sound good ?
Others of us need cone size and thusly trade detail for it.
I remember a favorable review of the audio nirvana classic (no whizzer 8").
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK we have another WBer fan-atic here among us, GREAT NEWS.
We are the loners, the **heretics**,,
Yes the 2145 isa real WINNER.
Has all 3 fq bands in no fatigue, no distortion voicing.
Anti-whizzer crowd??
Like in Mark Audio, some new Foxtex??
Nah, I;'ll stick with my DavidLouis VX8, as just basely edging out the Tang Band2145 in mids, Bass near identical,,and highs, TB2145 takes prize.
Hard to grasp some of the tech stuff you go over,,as i am not a DIY tech geek, Just a hobbist.
The Audio Nirvana, just looks like snakeoil to me
I think they are OOB now.
Anything over say 93+ db, is too high for my taste/needs/preferences. Near field, small room, and huge 100 watt Jadis amp,
The 92db TB2145 and DLVX8 both at 92db, is at my limit.
My Seas W18E001 at 87db, witha 10uf Mundorf cap adds just a nice soft bottom end.
The Kasun paper tweeter at 92 db, adds some sparkle,
But will upgrade to a DavidLouis Beryllium with Neo Dymium magnet tweet in march or april,
btw anyone interested,,I have the davidLouis 6 inch yellow cone up on ebay, paid $400+ ...selling at $$200 free ship
here's the YT upload
DavidLouis 6.5 /91 TRUE db sens range 45hz-14khz - YouTube
In my limited experience, it is very good, then even better including the price (to me).
I'd like to see a big 3.5ft3 ported with baffle step, or a transmission line to stomp on excursion.
I like that it doesn't need much eq for the price.
My current 2-way jbls are spec'd at 95db 1w/1m, and cerwin dx9's i had spec'd at 100db (4ohm).
And i loved some 83db electrostats so long as i didn't want louder than 100db.
I think you may be sensitive (or care about) phase (not that a full range driver is flat either).
Point source rings many people's bells also.
And the "double whizzer" 250tc was great, so long as you eq'd the mid peak down and listened off axis so you had a large listening area...........
Still no bass 8' away for my needs.
And that's ok, i now change between multiple speakers depending on my mood or time of day.
Even here, i am sure we have an "anti-whizzer" crowd, but it seems inevitable for a larger driver.
Did the l"cao not sound good ?
Others of us need cone size and thusly trade detail for it.
I remember a favorable review of the audio nirvana classic (no whizzer 8").
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK we have another WBer fan-atic here among us, GREAT NEWS.
We are the loners, the **heretics**,,
Yes the 2145 isa real WINNER.
Has all 3 fq bands in no fatigue, no distortion voicing.
Anti-whizzer crowd??
Like in Mark Audio, some new Foxtex??
Nah, I;'ll stick with my DavidLouis VX8, as just basely edging out the Tang Band2145 in mids, Bass near identical,,and highs, TB2145 takes prize.
Hard to grasp some of the tech stuff you go over,,as i am not a DIY tech geek, Just a hobbist.
The Audio Nirvana, just looks like snakeoil to me
I think they are OOB now.
Anything over say 93+ db, is too high for my taste/needs/preferences. Near field, small room, and huge 100 watt Jadis amp,
The 92db TB2145 and DLVX8 both at 92db, is at my limit.
My Seas W18E001 at 87db, witha 10uf Mundorf cap adds just a nice soft bottom end.
The Kasun paper tweeter at 92 db, adds some sparkle,
But will upgrade to a DavidLouis Beryllium with Neo Dymium magnet tweet in march or april,
btw anyone interested,,I have the davidLouis 6 inch yellow cone up on ebay, paid $400+ ...selling at $$200 free ship
here's the YT upload
DavidLouis 6.5 /91 TRUE db sens range 45hz-14khz - YouTube
So my wife is going to visit relatives,,I figured since i can't dump the DavidLouis 6 wide band and the DavidLouis 4 wide band on ebay,,I'll just give them to the relatives .
but just thinking about the 4,,I figured,,,maybe give thema shot in my DIY set up,,,and sure glad I did..I explain all in the video.
The Tang band W32141 looks excelelnt as well.
But I have the DL4 and thats what I am going to stay with.
Has osme kick in bass fora 3 inch cone, mids are crystal clear with no breakups.
Highs are excellent, all around a excellent speaker at $175 vs tang band's #w2141 at $100//
Adding the DL4 made a very nice gain in soundstage, vocal singer presence.
davidLouis 4 inch wide band,, Perfect - YouTube
but just thinking about the 4,,I figured,,,maybe give thema shot in my DIY set up,,,and sure glad I did..I explain all in the video.
The Tang band W32141 looks excelelnt as well.
But I have the DL4 and thats what I am going to stay with.
Has osme kick in bass fora 3 inch cone, mids are crystal clear with no breakups.
Highs are excellent, all around a excellent speaker at $175 vs tang band's #w2141 at $100//
Adding the DL4 made a very nice gain in soundstage, vocal singer presence.
davidLouis 4 inch wide band,, Perfect - YouTube
If you are looking for high efficiency, you can look up the Faitalpro 3Fe22. At 91db, it is one of the highest around at 3".
Oon
The DavidLouis yellow 6 will be shipped out to a friend. I'm only keeping the winners,
The DLVX8 is the standard.
Early 2022 I will add the DLVX6.
make the system a 3 way Full Range.
1st of its kind.
I don't believe anyone is usinga W8 + W6 + W4 design.
I love these Full Range, you can get creative and make up your own miega $ speaker on a budget.
Wilson has a speaker for Dubai Oil sheiks priced at $950G's.
Bet it sounds like garbage.
Look we could talk about the advantages of a Full Range speaker all day long and never convince the xover fans of this design's superiority.
At least the DIYers here are willing to accept Full range as a possible design that voices music in a special way.
I know many of you have both designs and perhaps horns, ESL's. and such.
IMHO the design that gets least attention are the Full Range.
maybe because the older models just didn't cut the grade.
And so the audiophiles just turned their backs on this idea ofa Full Range also perhaps due to the fact this driver does roll off on lows and highs.
But of course now with some creative tech geeks we find out the Full Range can be employed as a DEDICATED Midrange and that it is quite simple to add a midwoofer and tweeter which we now call **The Assist speakers*.
Any tweeter will, work on bringing in ambience to tyhe highs.
I tried a 2.2 Mundorf SESGO cap and found ok,, Then I figured why not the 8 uf EVO Silvergold which i ripped from the Millenniummxover.
BINGO
The paper tweeter really opened up not as constricted and more sheen on the sound.
However not just any old woofer will do.
IMHO the midwoofer's cone has to be as neutral (low resonances, very damp) cone material.
magnesium is my 1st choice and got lucky as thats whats in the Thors, magnesium, So in my case easly worked in and RECYCLED. = did not have to speand more cash.
When all is said and done my ultimate speaker system may be a
Trio of Full Range + dual midwoofers + the Be/Nd tweeter.
Do you guys know of anyone who has made such a design?
Links?
I am not talking line array point source 3 inch drivers.
But something of a W8+W6+W4 design + woofers + tweeter.
I might be the 1st to establish what may become a true real live super deep, super wide soundstage musical image.
Perhaps the speaker for the discerning 21st C audiophile.
A speaker which is amp friendly to any power and type.
Where a ss amplification will be no better no worse that a good tube amplifaction.
From flea watt to massive mono blocks.
At least the DIYers here are willing to accept Full range as a possible design that voices music in a special way.
I know many of you have both designs and perhaps horns, ESL's. and such.
IMHO the design that gets least attention are the Full Range.
maybe because the older models just didn't cut the grade.
And so the audiophiles just turned their backs on this idea ofa Full Range also perhaps due to the fact this driver does roll off on lows and highs.
But of course now with some creative tech geeks we find out the Full Range can be employed as a DEDICATED Midrange and that it is quite simple to add a midwoofer and tweeter which we now call **The Assist speakers*.
Any tweeter will, work on bringing in ambience to tyhe highs.
I tried a 2.2 Mundorf SESGO cap and found ok,, Then I figured why not the 8 uf EVO Silvergold which i ripped from the Millenniummxover.
BINGO
The paper tweeter really opened up not as constricted and more sheen on the sound.
However not just any old woofer will do.
IMHO the midwoofer's cone has to be as neutral (low resonances, very damp) cone material.
magnesium is my 1st choice and got lucky as thats whats in the Thors, magnesium, So in my case easly worked in and RECYCLED. = did not have to speand more cash.
When all is said and done my ultimate speaker system may be a
Trio of Full Range + dual midwoofers + the Be/Nd tweeter.
Do you guys know of anyone who has made such a design?
Links?
I am not talking line array point source 3 inch drivers.
But something of a W8+W6+W4 design + woofers + tweeter.
I might be the 1st to establish what may become a true real live super deep, super wide soundstage musical image.
Perhaps the speaker for the discerning 21st C audiophile.
A speaker which is amp friendly to any power and type.
Where a ss amplification will be no better no worse that a good tube amplifaction.
From flea watt to massive mono blocks.
You have been doing a lot of blather, but these needs taking out.
I am well aware of the advantages a full range/single driver brings, but they also have significant disadvantages.
Every loudspeaker is compromised… heavily compromised. The art of loudspeaker design is about how the designer chooses his compromises.
There are many, many loudspeakers because different people create a huge set of best compromises.
Full range is not superior to multi-way. Just different. If your preferred compromises include the set that favour FRs then they will be superior for YOU. But you are not everyone.
Also worth adding the caveat that Full Range loudspeakers and multiway speakers are far from monolithic.
My personal best solution is a WAW where i can lose many of the compromises a FR makes, while at the same time superCharging what the FR does well. Gain lots. Lose little although one of the things you usually use is a low budget.
dave