Going to be building my first open baffle speakers and I'm looking to get some opinions. My amp is the Decware SE34I.3 and the idea is to build something small along the design of the Caintuck Betsy. Baffles will be made from either red oak or 1" birch ply, both of which I've got in stock in my wood shop.
I've got a couple of questions and am interested in hearing all opinions.
1) Is the shape of the baffle essential? I see that Caintuck offers a barrel and a tombstone shape. Is this purely an aesthetic or does the shape alter the sound? I can't build them any bigger than 30x18 probably because of the room.
2) Drivers I'm looking at are the Alnico Betsy and the Lii F-15 and Lii F-12. They all seem to have pretty stellar reviews but I'm curious to hear more if anyone has a strong opinion.
3) Do they have to go on the floor? Ideally I'd be putting these on top of a cabinet and the base of the speaker would be about 2 1/2 feet from the ground, about the same distance from the wall behind them. The right speaker would end up about a foot from the side wall.
4) Wings or no wings? Obviously the Caintuck speakers are a bare baffle, but looking around at other designs I see plenty with either hinged or fixed wings coming off the back of the baffle. Presumably these affect the bass response and help shape what's coming out of the rear of the speaker?
Thanks!
I've got a couple of questions and am interested in hearing all opinions.
1) Is the shape of the baffle essential? I see that Caintuck offers a barrel and a tombstone shape. Is this purely an aesthetic or does the shape alter the sound? I can't build them any bigger than 30x18 probably because of the room.
2) Drivers I'm looking at are the Alnico Betsy and the Lii F-15 and Lii F-12. They all seem to have pretty stellar reviews but I'm curious to hear more if anyone has a strong opinion.
3) Do they have to go on the floor? Ideally I'd be putting these on top of a cabinet and the base of the speaker would be about 2 1/2 feet from the ground, about the same distance from the wall behind them. The right speaker would end up about a foot from the side wall.
4) Wings or no wings? Obviously the Caintuck speakers are a bare baffle, but looking around at other designs I see plenty with either hinged or fixed wings coming off the back of the baffle. Presumably these affect the bass response and help shape what's coming out of the rear of the speaker?
Thanks!
Beware of speakers with no measured characteristics published.
OBs struggle to put out any bass due to front-to-back cancellation even on wide baffles with wings. Usually a 15inch driver is needed and an active Xover that can boost it.
Of course the size and the shape of the baffle matters.
OBL-15 by T. Gravesen can give you some idea of the drivers needed. Really well engineered OB examples are Nao Note and LX521. I currently use the latter plus my home brewed OB:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-baffle-gallery-259.html#post5670164
OBs need a lot of breathing room. They generally sound well with live recordings but most recordings which were mixed when listening to some box speakers will require a lot of EQ to sound good.
OBs struggle to put out any bass due to front-to-back cancellation even on wide baffles with wings. Usually a 15inch driver is needed and an active Xover that can boost it.
Of course the size and the shape of the baffle matters.
OBL-15 by T. Gravesen can give you some idea of the drivers needed. Really well engineered OB examples are Nao Note and LX521. I currently use the latter plus my home brewed OB:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/123512-ultimate-baffle-gallery-259.html#post5670164
OBs need a lot of breathing room. They generally sound well with live recordings but most recordings which were mixed when listening to some box speakers will require a lot of EQ to sound good.
Take a look at the Linkwitz LX521. It has a top part and a bottom part. The top part is where open baffle has value. The bottom part are OB subwoofers -- zero value in my opinion (others will disagree.)
Open baffle subwoofers offer no advantage over traditional subwoofers because that frequency range is below the room transition. So if you build the bottom part of Linkwitz's speakers you're just wasting money and likely getting an inferior result because of how you will position them in the room.
He did not place the important part of his OB speaker on the floor, the top section.
He did not use wings.
Linkwitz designed the old Audio Artistry open baffle speakers. However, he evolved into his LX521 design which are narrow baffle 3-ways.
There isn't any magic to an OB design. If you keep fine tuning your OB design to improve sound you'll probably end up where Linkwitz wound up, which is with minimal baffle. However, I personally think the large baffles are more attractive.
I have tried quite a lot of open baffle drivers in my time and always keep coming back to the Visaton B200. A well respected driver with plenty of information about it on the net so saves you the guesswork.
For getting bass out of an open baffle driver is difficult, you need a very big baffle board which for most rooms is impractical. The next best thing is to cut a hole in the wall behind and uses the wall itself as the baffle board and the driver can use the room ( in my case the kitchen ) behind for air to breathe in.
Looks really neat without the need for big lumps of wood cluttering up my living room, paint a grill and put it over the driver for decorative effect and you are good to go.
For getting bass out of an open baffle driver is difficult, you need a very big baffle board which for most rooms is impractical. The next best thing is to cut a hole in the wall behind and uses the wall itself as the baffle board and the driver can use the room ( in my case the kitchen ) behind for air to breathe in.
Looks really neat without the need for big lumps of wood cluttering up my living room, paint a grill and put it over the driver for decorative effect and you are good to go.
I have the 15" lii's in an OB and I like 'em. I had to add assist woofers, as I felt the bass was lacking with just the single 15" drivers. I'd say the bass is still quite "polite" even with two, 18" drivers assisting, crossed at 100 Hz.
OB bass is different than sealed or reflex boxes I hear within those automobiles driving past as their acoustic output penetrates everything in the vicinity. It doesnt have that gut punch and the ability to radiate 100 meters in every direction. Instead, OB bass disappears outside the listening area - hear it in one room, gone in the adjacent room.
Many listeners wont like this aspect, as it "seems weird" compared to every other enclosed cab speaker design's behavior. As an unassisted OB driver wont go very low; you can always add a commercial sub to fill in the bottom two octaves - and get that neighbor disturbing, brick walls wont stop it thick bass that'll shake your guts and window panes, rattle the dishes in the kitchen cabinets.
Mine are asymmetrically placed on a tombstone shaped baffle, the opposite speaker mirroring. They look like this -
OB bass is different than sealed or reflex boxes I hear within those automobiles driving past as their acoustic output penetrates everything in the vicinity. It doesnt have that gut punch and the ability to radiate 100 meters in every direction. Instead, OB bass disappears outside the listening area - hear it in one room, gone in the adjacent room.
Many listeners wont like this aspect, as it "seems weird" compared to every other enclosed cab speaker design's behavior. As an unassisted OB driver wont go very low; you can always add a commercial sub to fill in the bottom two octaves - and get that neighbor disturbing, brick walls wont stop it thick bass that'll shake your guts and window panes, rattle the dishes in the kitchen cabinets.
Mine are asymmetrically placed on a tombstone shaped baffle, the opposite speaker mirroring. They look like this -
Attachments
A very classic and documented combo is the Visaton B200 fullrange and the Emminence Alpha 15A woofer. This works very well and is maybe a good first safe step into OB's. If you use the search buttom of this forum you can find a lot of info about this setup.
But in general use high Qts (+0.7) drivers, especially for the woofers or fullrange drivers that need to go low.
But in general use high Qts (+0.7) drivers, especially for the woofers or fullrange drivers that need to go low.
How about something like this?
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...n-inexpensive-ob-project-161.html#post5221647
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...n-inexpensive-ob-project-161.html#post5221647
Then i think you need a bigger fullrange. I always wanted to try the 15" Fane 15-300TC on OB as it has the right qts and a fairly low response. But you'll need some eq and BFC circuit i think to get real bass out of it, and a large baffle. The first one is not a big issue as the sensivity of the driver is very high (so cutting the top will not make it to silent). But do you have the space to do the second and have a large baffle? I don't, that is why i did not try it yet.
I loved my 12" on phy open baffle (6' tall, 16" center, 24" deep wings), for what it did, and driver 36" off the floor and not right up against an edge.
Midrange clarity, girl and guitar music.
But, no bass, at all, classic rock, nope.
minus the bass, wasn't bad for movies because dialog isn't usually there during the loud stuff, unlike music where the bass makes the voice warble.
Wife didn't mind it either folded back (60 degrees).
It was so tall that it looked narrow.
I think wrapping the back in a 3" thick foam box would have sounded even better, it worked with my 3" close field.
Midrange clarity, girl and guitar music.
But, no bass, at all, classic rock, nope.
minus the bass, wasn't bad for movies because dialog isn't usually there during the loud stuff, unlike music where the bass makes the voice warble.
Wife didn't mind it either folded back (60 degrees).
It was so tall that it looked narrow.
I think wrapping the back in a 3" thick foam box would have sounded even better, it worked with my 3" close field.
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