Hello all , I have some questions about this driver from Lii Audio in China :
I am considering building this enclosure posted on their website :
I only have this 6.5W single ended tube amp :
Is this tube amp sufficient to drive these speakers ?
( I don`t play very loud )
Could someone more knowledgable on speaker design give their opinion on this design , or alternatively , know of a similar enclosure plan suitable for this driver ?
( I don`t have room to correctly place any open baffle speakers ), so I`m only really interested in a large bass reflex cabinet.
Would I need a sub ?
Thank you .
I am considering building this enclosure posted on their website :
I only have this 6.5W single ended tube amp :
Is this tube amp sufficient to drive these speakers ?
( I don`t play very loud )
Could someone more knowledgable on speaker design give their opinion on this design , or alternatively , know of a similar enclosure plan suitable for this driver ?
( I don`t have room to correctly place any open baffle speakers ), so I`m only really interested in a large bass reflex cabinet.
Would I need a sub ?
Thank you .
If that amp can deliver 3-4 watt or more, it should be enough in a typical livingroom situation. 97dB is already very loud in a typical living room, and 4 watt theoretically adds 6dB to that, and then add an other 3dB if you have a pair of speakers. But you never play full power with tube amps (or they distort to much). Most of the time i guess you won't even send 1w to the speaker, it will be more a few dozen to a few hundred mW...
And a sub is needed if you need a real deep bass, This driver has an FS of 49Hz and the box tuning should be similar i guess (but we lack that info) and in most cases that is deep enough. But if you listen to music with a very deep bass or a lot of bass a sub may be needed. A typical commercial bookshelf cuts way higher than that (60 to 100Hz) and most floorstanders are in that region (40 to 60Hz) so...
And a sub is needed if you need a real deep bass, This driver has an FS of 49Hz and the box tuning should be similar i guess (but we lack that info) and in most cases that is deep enough. But if you listen to music with a very deep bass or a lot of bass a sub may be needed. A typical commercial bookshelf cuts way higher than that (60 to 100Hz) and most floorstanders are in that region (40 to 60Hz) so...
Crunching the numbers on the WinISD simulator, the program wants to select a sealed enclosure since it derives its EBP from resonant frequency, (Fs) and Qes, its ability to control the cone by electrical means. The 63.78 value of Qes is shockingly low, very very little electrical control...the bulk of control via the mechanical suspension, (Qms).
A sealed enclosure models out to 600 plus liters in internal volume...EG 700 liters sealed gets an F3 of 50.06 hertz at -3.02 Db.
Switching to a ported enclosure, the volume is well over 1000 liters in size, and those extra 25 hertz at the bottom can be obtained.
------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick..........
A sealed enclosure models out to 600 plus liters in internal volume...EG 700 liters sealed gets an F3 of 50.06 hertz at -3.02 Db.
Switching to a ported enclosure, the volume is well over 1000 liters in size, and those extra 25 hertz at the bottom can be obtained.
------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick..........
Right, the factory cab is so acoustically small I just did a 'close/good enough' sim = ~278.5 L, ~38 Hz Fb with a +3 dB/70 Hz mid-bass 'bump'.
100 dB/m/3 W/2pi/2 mm limit from ~32 Hz-up, so factor in the amp's high output impedance and it will have an even more 'robust' low corner and of course even more up against a wall and especially a corner, so short of low B pipe organ, low C piano or true infra/sub-bass special effects, no sub needed.
All assuming published specs being accurate of course, so caveat emptor!
In short, its specs 'screams' sealed or some form of compression loaded TL/horn.
GM
100 dB/m/3 W/2pi/2 mm limit from ~32 Hz-up, so factor in the amp's high output impedance and it will have an even more 'robust' low corner and of course even more up against a wall and especially a corner, so short of low B pipe organ, low C piano or true infra/sub-bass special effects, no sub needed.
All assuming published specs being accurate of course, so caveat emptor!
In short, its specs 'screams' sealed or some form of compression loaded TL/horn.
GM
Greets!
'Sealed' in the sense that with such a high Qts that will be much higher coupled to your amp it ideally needs to be an infinite baffle [IB] of at least 10x [measured] Vas, though in reality could be as little as [measured] Vas/1.44 and lossy vented [~aperiodic] to bleed off its excess 'Q'ness, though of course the bass goes with it to a greater or lesser extent depending on how much the amp increases it by tracking the speaker's impedance.
The pioneers used stuffed pipes of varying tapers to acoustically 'squeeze' it out or when the marketability of high price/size was available, a large back loaded horn such as EV's ~ 35 Hz, 30 ft^3 Patrician.
Frankly, having recently auditioned dbx's latest relatively inexpensive pro speaker system management [DSP], my training/recommending solving acoustic problems with acoustic solutions has pretty much gone the way of the Dodo bird, especially now that the 'world' of available audio room 'real estate', quality time is shrinking at an alarming rate for all but the relatively wealthy.
In short/short [or not as it turned out], when going low at high SPL isn't a primary goal because of a lot of room gain or using a separate bass system, then going as high as a 3.0+ [effective] Qtc' [not a misprint, I've built speakers with measured 2.85 Qts + 8 ohms tube amp output impedance, so know it's doable acoustically] and DSP this 'one note' boom box flat over the desired BW and call it a day as life's getting shorter/more hectic with each new politician it seems. :(
GM
'Sealed' in the sense that with such a high Qts that will be much higher coupled to your amp it ideally needs to be an infinite baffle [IB] of at least 10x [measured] Vas, though in reality could be as little as [measured] Vas/1.44 and lossy vented [~aperiodic] to bleed off its excess 'Q'ness, though of course the bass goes with it to a greater or lesser extent depending on how much the amp increases it by tracking the speaker's impedance.
The pioneers used stuffed pipes of varying tapers to acoustically 'squeeze' it out or when the marketability of high price/size was available, a large back loaded horn such as EV's ~ 35 Hz, 30 ft^3 Patrician.
Frankly, having recently auditioned dbx's latest relatively inexpensive pro speaker system management [DSP], my training/recommending solving acoustic problems with acoustic solutions has pretty much gone the way of the Dodo bird, especially now that the 'world' of available audio room 'real estate', quality time is shrinking at an alarming rate for all but the relatively wealthy.
In short/short [or not as it turned out], when going low at high SPL isn't a primary goal because of a lot of room gain or using a separate bass system, then going as high as a 3.0+ [effective] Qtc' [not a misprint, I've built speakers with measured 2.85 Qts + 8 ohms tube amp output impedance, so know it's doable acoustically] and DSP this 'one note' boom box flat over the desired BW and call it a day as life's getting shorter/more hectic with each new politician it seems. :(
GM
I have a set. Mine are in OBs. I assist the low end with a pair of 18s. Crossed at ~100Hz, using DSP. I played with REW and made a EQ and got the response, shown, one time. Then I changed the whole amplifier system to something different, sans mini-DSP.
They sound really good on piano music, which is what was said that caused me to buy them in the first place. I really like 'em!
They sound really good on piano music, which is what was said that caused me to buy them in the first place. I really like 'em!
Attachments
They're 4' from the back wall, 8' more (for a total of 12" from the back wall) to the seating plane of the sofa. As long as I have the tape measure out, about 8' apart, phase-plug to phase-plug on the F15's. There's probably 10' of open space behind the sofa also...
Too bad they're not easily auditioned. I'd think you'd jump on 'em if you heard 'em. However, it's one of those goldielocks things; too hard, too soft, just right - that you'd have to experience yourself, so that said with some caveats;
It's a big FR speaker, so it's going to "beam" or whatever, so that would put some people off regardless of how much of a joy it is to listen to -
It's a FR speaker, so its frequency response isnt going to be nearly as flat as can be natively achieved using other designs, so that would put some people off regardless...
It has some measured parameters that seem to be in an off-place, relative to more common values of such, so that would put some people off regardless...
It's a FR speaker, so its going to IM distort the sound eventually at some sound pressure level, moreso than what can be natively achieved using other designs, so that would put some people off regardless...
I chose my bed and am sleeping comfortably in it - so far! I'm 63 and cannot hear elements in recording I used to be able to. I can still hear instrument placement, depth and other attributes of phase correlated reproduction within the frequencies I can still hear. Depends so much on the recording; if "there" in the recording, my F15 speakers (with the 18" assists) will cast an acoustic bassist almost as if "there" in the room. Even when streaming audio from the Jazz Groove through an iPhone, BT connection to the amp; with no particular attention paid to the bit-depth or encoding of the stream.
This, I like.
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Thank you for the detailed reply Joe .
Everything you mention makes sense to me.
You have confirmed that I do not have the space to play these in open baffle configuration.
I bet your system sounds very nice.
hitsware; If you look closely at my avatar, you can see I've done that with these F15s...at first.
ernie000; There's discussion elsewhere on smaller (8") FR drivers - retailing for a lot less. Maybe a better fit for your room size?
I'm lucky to have the large room, be "allowed" to have these things; they look like two white elephants in it and dominate that end.
ernie000; There's discussion elsewhere on smaller (8") FR drivers - retailing for a lot less. Maybe a better fit for your room size?
I'm lucky to have the large room, be "allowed" to have these things; they look like two white elephants in it and dominate that end.